Grant Green Study Group - Grant's Dimensions

**gggomez** · 02-29-2016, 06:42 PM

I like the study groups on here but can't find one that is a good fit so I thought I would start one.

many of us obviously really dig Grant Green. Barry Greene suggested to me last year that my playing although correct was not jazz and that I needed to transcribe. He recommended I transcribe Greens Greenery which I did and it changed everything for me. The lines the rhythms wow! Sat down and analysed it like a school assignment and it opened up so many doors, my jazz playing was born.

i have read and enacted the advice from here it is all in the heads. I have transcribed about 15 heads.

i am now transcribing this cool Grant Green track Grants Dimension. Very cool rhythmic head and a solo with yep lots of cool lines that are technically not so hard and many pretty simple. I have worked out the head and the first 8 bars of the solo.

Who is interested in this as a study group?

**gggomez** · 02-29-2016, 07:27 PM

**gggomez** · 02-29-2016, 07:58 PM

Yes Jordan let's throw away those books and listen and learn from the masters.After learning the head last year and then deciding I would learn more heads, I decided I have learned enough heads need to get back into building my vocabulary of lines. I picked this up again last night and thought yeah I gotta learn this solo.The first 8 bars of the solo are just killer. A simple intro of 3 little arpeggios (which I have to work out how do they relate to the chords) then a small cluster of notes but such subtle but high impact chromatic movement then followed by some more simple lines. What a master.

**jordanklemons** · 02-29-2016, 08:07 PM

Yeah, sounds pretty straight forward. I haven't picked up my guitar yet... but I hear a lot of I -> bVII7 and back and forth. Then up to the IV chord. Then just a blues. Though I'd have to mess with that turnaround a bit. It's not jumping right off the page at me the way the rest of the form is.

**gggomez** · 03-01-2016, 05:04 AM

Yes with one additional chord, after the G7#9 in the head he flattens the root and the third to make a Gbmaj7.

**gggomez** · 03-01-2016, 06:20 AM

dortmund you are all over this remember this is the beginners section.

Now I have never seen a progression like this so for me not just another blues.
Are there other blues that do this
To me that G7#9 to Gbmaj7 is very nifty and cool, is that in other songs?

OK I am off to work on the solo.

**Little Jay** · 03-01-2016, 08:04 AM

I love Grant Green and I stole quite a few of his licks and his playing!

**gggomez** · 03-01-2016, 04:18 PM

wow ok thanks dortmund I have to digest that (I have also started learning the head of Drfitin by Herbie Hancock, also a blues but like this not stock 12 bar).

**robertoart** · 03-01-2016, 06:55 PM

I'm interested in this for sure. I don't have the technical knowledge to talk theory as well as I would like so it would be a good learning opportunity. I'm more interested in Grants organ sessions and approaches to Blues than I am in Standards but I would try and lift. One question though, is Grants Dimensions a tune based on another progression or an original set of changes built around the head and riff perhaps? I am also interested in Grants comping behind organ players as well, which is something I don't hear talked about much. I also have read someone saying that If you slowed 60's Benson playing down a notch or three you would hear Grant Green.

**robertoart** · 03-01-2016, 07:10 PM

Any chance I can place an order to analyse this one later. I think it's got some of Grants best extended lines. I compiled this YouTube clip because this performance wasn't represented on YouTube before ,and I am chuffed it is getting up to near 75,000 views!!! There is also a companion Kenny Burrell clip from the same concert that is also magnificent.

**gggomez** · 03-01-2016, 07:16 PM

Great Robert. I did a write up of Green's Greenery (organ recording) on here - tab and my attempt at analysis about 6 months ago. I should post the rest.

I am also transcribing the Scratch by Benson and MacDuff. It is only one track, it is a minor Blues, but for me it does not feel like a GG based style (I have also transcribed Ain't it Funky Now so my feel for GG is only 2-3 tracks deep and GB 1/2 a track) their rhythms feel quite different to me.

The rhythm of the improvisations has been a surprise benefit of transcribing. I have found when doing my own improv if I focus on a GG based rhythm my solos come out far superior than focusing on notes.

I am kind of following your approach, intend to do another year on blues before looking at standards. I think it can take you to some cool places eg the Benson MacDuff version of Summertime is very blues based and guys like Lee Morgan, Clifford Brown, Stanley Turrentine, Lester Young, Kenny Burrell etc etc to my ears have a very blues based approach generally.

**jordanklemons** · 03-01-2016, 08:08 PM

I don't transcribe much, but I did do a Lester blues a couple months back. That man could sing!!!

**jordanklemons** · 03-01-2016, 08:11 PM

I did the chorus starting at 1 minute in.

**robertoart** · 03-01-2016, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by gggomez

Great Robert. I did a write up of Green's Greenery (organ recording) on here - tab and my attempt at analysis about 6 months ago. I should post the rest.

I am also transcribing the Scratch by Benson and MacDuff. It is only one track, it is a minor Blues, but for me it does not feel like a GG based style (I have also transcribed Ain't it Funky Now so my feel for GG is only 2-3 tracks deep and GB 1/2 a track) their rhythms feel quite different to me.

The rhythm of the improvisations has been a surprise benefit of transcribing. I have found when doing my own improv if I focus on a GG based rhythm my solos come out far superior than focusing on notes.

I am kind of following your approach, intend to do another year on blues before looking at standards. I think it can take you to some cool places eg the Benson MacDuff version of Summertime is very blues based and guys like Lee Morgan, Clifford Brown, Stanley Turrentine, Lester Young, Kenny Burrell etc etc to my ears have a very blues based approach generally.

Yes i think that is a good assessment. I would say though, that there are some tracks on Cookbook and the session before, that really do bring George closer to Grant, and you CAN hear the direct influence in the lines, if not the rhythm as you rightly say. And I did read or hear somewhere recently, George saying how much he was watching and listening to Grant. I will check the tunes out I am thinking of, and if they sound anything like I remember them I will post one. But Grants Dimensions is a really good tune to get stuck into though.

**robertoart** · 03-02-2016, 10:06 AM

I like the lines Grant plays a lot in that one. And what is Grant superimposing over the Blues in D and plain harmony? Anyway that is a digression from Grant's Dimensions.

**MarkRhodes** · 03-02-2016, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by robertoart

I thought to also post this man who has uploaded his George Benson studies and is doing great work, but sadly seems to be not getting much interest.

No pickguard! That was a surprise. Thanks for posting this---I had not heard him.

**MarkRhodes** · 03-02-2016, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by dortmundjazzguitar

these lines over dominant chord are in fact quite similar to pat martino's activities as presented in linear expressions. one could use the above d blues and write a textbook with grant green "activities"

Fascinating comparison! I had not thought of it that way but now that you mention, I "get it." (I'm very familiar with Pat's "Linear Expressions.")

**Dana** · 03-02-2016, 04:57 PM

A Grant Green study group? I hereby nominate this as the coolest thread on the forum.

**robertoart** · 03-02-2016, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by dortmundjazzguitar

he is mostly playing out of the d-minor pentatonic, with the added F# when appropriate. other than that he often plays the usual major blues lick D F F# G Ab A over D7. and he has quite a lot of "text" over plain dominant chords, with runs over the related minor chord (Am7 lines over D7).he gets extra chromatics mostly but not exclusively from the bebop scale. these lines over dominant chord are in fact quite similar to pat martino's activities as presented in linear expressions. one could use the above d blues and write a textbook with grant green "activities"

That's a great post. Thank you. Sincerely.
And I think part of the reason I like this performance so much, is that it's probably a rare example of the kind of lines and approach he got into in a live setting. Maybe the kind of playing that Martino and Benson we're seeing and hearing when they first started their careers. I also remember reading Larry Coryell say that Grant's version of I Want To Hold Your Hand was the best cover of a Beatles tune he ever heard. Not the album version, but one he heard Grant Green do in New York clubs.

**robertoart** · 03-04-2016, 09:02 PM

Up thread I got this tune mixed up with Green With Envy, which is apparently based on Love For Sale. But with regards to Grant's Dimensions, I am hearing the move from G7#9 the way this guy is hearing it, but I won't have Transcribe up and running again until next week, so I can't isolate it and be sure. I also want to work out a comping pattern before I dig into the improv. Great choice of tune to study by the way. It reminds me of Jean De Fleur which would be another excellent set of changes to work on.

**robertoart** · 03-04-2016, 09:26 PM

There's probably enough information in the chorus Grant comps behind the bass solo to build a complete comping pattern around, or close to it. There's one bit where he seems to be comping Cminor Dminor Eminor that reminds me of Milestones.

**robertoart** · 03-05-2016, 04:59 AM

Originally Posted by dortmundjazzguitar

he's right about the Ebm7. regarding the Gb chord, i hear it as a triad the first time around and the maj7 only the second time. his Gbmaj7 chord with the doubled third is most likely not the right voicing.

green with envy is based on nicas dream.

Thanks again Dortmandjazz. I felt right too hearing the Ebm7, but didn't feel entirely right about the Gb. I will try a triad voicing when I get back to it as well. Grant strikes a Gb voicing at the end of the tune and I think that may be one of the ones he uses in the head arrangement, or maybe even another fuller variation perhaps?
And Nicas Dream is such a lovely tune. I used to have a great version by Sonny Greenwich on an Lp many years ago, but sadly don't have the vinyl anymore.

**edh** · 03-07-2016, 12:51 AM

@Dortmund, are you referring to the Grant green dimensions record or the above video? Chormatics is what I would like to learn more about.

**gggomez** · 03-07-2016, 01:07 AM

chromatics is part of the GG vocab. It colours what he does. EG he may play very straight lots of space eg 1+ 3+, then play more notes for a few bars and incorporate chromatic approach notes. I have learned it is not just the notes it is his rhythm and when and where he puts them that make it so cool. A couple of bars into this improv he has some nice chromatic stuff it is pretty simple but it is because he played straight first that make it sound cool then goes back to arpeggio ideas which just makes each component sound so sweet. I will start writing it down soon.

**robertoart** · 03-08-2016, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by edh

@Dortmund, are you referring to the Grant green dimensions record or the above video? Chormatics is what I would like to learn more about.

This group of lessons has just popped up on youtube. Miss Annes Tempo. Part 3 details some chromatic moves.
This is the best Grant Green tutorial I have EVER seen on youtube. Magnificent. I cant wait to dig into these. Kudos to the uploader!!!!