Charlie Christian Study Group

[MarkRhodes]

Do you know if he used downstrokes exclusively for his solos?

Barney Kessel said Charlie played downstrokes about 85% of the time.

[ggjay]

Barney Kessel said Charlie played downstrokes about 85% of the time.

Thanks! Good to know.

[monk]

Do you know if he used downstrokes exclusively for his solos?

Christian used downstrokes most of the time. As did George Barnes, Django Reinhardt and pretty much everyone else. It was common practice for the time.

This video of Mary Osborne who was one of CC's disciples has some great right hand shots.

This footage of Bucky Pizzarelli also has some good right hand shots.

[jazzbow]

I'm in too.

I love his tone and phrasing.

I've joined a band for a charity event so transcribing and learning tunes will be my down time for the next 8 months!

This will be my guilty pleasure from ABBA tunes and disco dance floor barnstormers!

Nice!

[Greentone]

Mary Osborne sounds great sitting next to Lady Day in the '58 clip. The Stromberg she plays must be worth a small fortune today. You don't see many blonde Strombergs.

[Steve Z]

Great video clip with Mary Osborne. I hadn't seen it before. Thanks for posting.

[monk]

Great video clip with Mary Osborne. I hadn't seen it before. Thanks for posting.

The real credit goes to new member Tommy Harkenrider who posted it in a group on Facebook last week. I noticed the good camera work on her right hand and thought that it was a great demonstration of how swing players actually used a plectrum given that there has been some debate surrounding this issue in the past.

[MarkRhodes]

The real credit goes to new member Tommy Harkenrider who posted it in a group on Facebook last week. I noticed the good camera work on her right hand and thought that it was a great demonstration of how swing players actually used a plectrum given that there has been some debate surrounding this issue in the past.

Tommy's a good player in his own right. We're lucky to have him. Check out some of his YouTube clips---roots / swing / Western swing / jump: he knows his way around all of it!

[jazzbow]

Tommy H is deffo coolos

Anyone that can swing the CA pickup is cool-lee-cool

[MarkRhodes]

This thread is getting busy. How about an informal poll of favorite Charlie Christian solos / performances? With an eye toward things you have learned to play or would like to learn to play. This way we can see where the most interest lies.

"Seven Come Eleven" * "Flying Home" * "Rose Room" *

O, and trouble spots. I have a hard time getting the bridge of "Air Mail Special" to sound right. There must be a better fingering than the ones I have tried so far.

[Jehu]

Christian used downstrokes most of the time. As did George Barnes, Django Reinhardt and pretty much everyone else. It was common practice for the time.

This video of Mary Osborne who was one of CC's disciples has some great right hand shots.

1. Man, she could play. I don't know why you don't hear her name more often. (Well, I do, but anyway.)

2. That's a whole lot of downstrokes. Interesting how similar her technique looks to gypsy picking.

[sjl]

Hey, Great post here!!!

Charlie Christian is the source, we all know that Wes made himself playing Christian solos learned by ear, but his ideas are everywhere. I listen Christian in BB King as well.
I was in a moment when I liked Gipsy jazz music and blues-jazz music, and What I found? Charlie was at the center of that. If you study Christian music you will have a language that will permit you to go anywhere, let's say rockabilly, blues, manouche, even bebop.
I bought some transcriptions books in the past and I really like and recommend this one (it is not a transcription one):
http://tinyurl.com/pkt6tgc

Weidlich explains the fretboard in a "Christian way" thinking in chord shapes and chord tones. I think that approach should be teached to early students, before the five boxes approach or caged, because in the last the student learns the shape but doesn't fix mentally where the chord tones are.
I am transcribing BB King solos just now and when you do that and forget about his incredibly touch, sense of rhythm and feeling you understand that He is playing primarily chord tones! Music is not that hard, you have to decipher the meaning of notes over a chord, the fifth means a thing, the third means another, the root is a release, an eleventh can surprised you, a ninth is a cute note used properly; all that is inside Christian solo.

I have learned more transcribing the little Wholly cats solo than in two years copying licks for books.

[MarkRhodes]

Hey, Great post here!!!

Charlie Christian is the source, we all know that Wes made himself playing Christian solos learned by ear, but his ideas are everywhere. I listen Christian in BB King as well.
I was in a moment when I liked Gipsy jazz music and blues-jazz music, and What I found? Charlie was at the center of that. If you study Christian music you will have a language that will permit you to go anywhere, let's say rockabilly, blues, manouche, even bebop.
I bought some transcriptions books in the past and I really like and recommend this one (it is not a transcription one):
Amazon.com: The Guitar Chord Shapes of Charlie Christian (9781574241495): Joe Weidlich, Charlie Christian: Books

Weidlich explains the fretboard in a "Christian way" thinking in chord shapes and chord tones. I think that approach should be teached to early students, before the five boxes approach or caged, because in the last the student learns the shape but doesn't fix mentally where the chord tones are.
I am transcribing BB King solos just now and when you do that and forget about his incredibly touch, sense of rhythm and feeling you understand that He is playing primarily chord tones! Music is not that hard, you have to decifrate the meaning of notes over a chord, the fifth means a thing, the third means another, the root is a release, an eleventh can surprised you, a ninth is a cute note used properly; all that is inside Christian solo.

I have learned more transcribing the little Wholly cats solo than in two years copying licks for books.

Great post. About the word "decifrate"--is that a variation of "decipher"? I think that is what you meant there but I do not know that word, "decifrate."

I agree that you can take what you learn from Charlie anywhere. As for Weidlich, I have that book on Charlie's guitar chord shapes. I find it useful, though like many others who have bought it, I think that CD that comes with it is awful. (All the examples are MIDI and the sound is tinny and the feel is stiff. I don't use the CD at all.)
Weidlich has a newer book out on Charlie Christian and T-Bone Walker. I have this on my want list and will come by it eventually. (It's not like I'm through with all the books I'm working in now... ;o)

Trading Licks: Charlie Christian & T-Bone Walker: Joseph Weidlich, Charlie Christian, T-Bone Walker: 9781574243147: Amazon.com: Books

[MarkRhodes]

That's a whole lot of downstrokes. Interesting how similar her technique looks to gypsy picking.

I suppose youngsters who take up gypsy guitar are taught that from the beginning. It doesn't seem that anyone teaching swing / jazz guitar (other than Gypsy style) stresses downstrokes that way anymore. Alternate picking is taught as the "default". Interesting...

[sjl]

Great post. About the word "decifrate"--is that a variation of "decipher"? I think that is what you meant there but I do not know that word, "decifrate."

Of course. Excuse my english.
I'll correct my last post.

[MarkRhodes]

Of course. Excuse my english.
I'll correct my last post.

Not a problem. I'm a writer so I'm fascinated by words. I thought at first that was a typo but then I thought, "Hey, that might be a word I never heard before: neat!"

[MarkRhodes]

I'm studying the shape concept here in Brazil with a teacher (Adriano de Carvalho) that developed his way of playing based primarily in CC.
He has a Benny Goodman's Sextet tribute and it's incredible to watch live the original transcriptions from the sextet.

Neat! I love those old tunes. How did your teacher teach you his method?

[clebergf]

Neat! I love those old tunes. How did your teacher teach you his method?

Yeah, I love them too. I had a opportunity to play a song with them and it was amazing.

Well, he gives a shape and show the chord tones, dissonance, chromatic and blue notes. After I get the idea of the shape I start to learn some CCs phrases and from there I try to build my own phrases.
I'm at the very beginning with this, I think I started to study with him 6 months ago and there is others topics that I'm learning too (harmony, composition, comping, reading etc. ).

[MarkRhodes]

Yeah, I love them too. I had a opportunity to play a song with them and it was amazing.

Well, he gives a shape and show the chord tones, dissonance, chromatic and blue notes. After I get the idea of the shape I start to learn some CCs phrases and from there I try to build my own phrases.
I'm at the very beginning with this, I think I started to study with him 6 months ago and there is others topics that I'm learning too (harmony, composition, comping, reading etc. ).

That sounds like what Herb Ellis taught too. Perhaps we can find (or make) diagrams of the shapes we use to see if we're all using the same ones...

[clebergf]

That sounds like what Herb Ellis taught too. Perhaps we can find (or make) diagrams of the shapes we use to see if we're all using the same ones...

Yeah, sure. When I get back home I'll post here. There is a shape for tonic, sub-dominant and dominant so far now.

[fep]

[ggjay]

Here's "I Surrender Dear".
I really like this one.
Especially the last four bars CC plays are really beautiful.

[MarkRhodes]

Here's "I Surrender Dear".
I really like this one.
Especially the last four bars CC plays are really beautiful.

Nice! Enjoyed that.

[ggjay]

Nice! Enjoyed that.

Thanks!
Thats my first electric recording.
Due to circumstances I had to record the first two acoustically.
The next solo I'm gonna learn is from "I've found a new baby"

I still can't play the solos all downstrokes. My right hand isn't relaxed enough yet.
Or maybe it has to do with building up strength too...

[clebergf]

Mark.

Here are the two shapes (tonic, IV and V) that I'm studying I use them only for blues by now.

The "meaning" for each form are: chord tones, extensions, blues notes, chromatic and all together.
All together is just to make you have the idea of all the notes, but the best way is to get the sound of each "form".


I (Tonic)



IV and V



Sorry by the bad pics, cheap smartphone.