Charlie Parker Omnibook

[christianm77]

There's an Am7 (because he starts the bar with a G), a G note, and an Abmaj triad. I didn't mention the last note, F#, but that makes the second portion of the bar Ab7, which is an exact tritone sub. But, it may also be an anticipation of the next bar.

So, I called it Am7, then Abmaj triad. That's because I was thinking iim7 then tritone sub. I can see arguments for Am7 to Abmaj7 or Am7 to Ab7 or Am7 to D7b9#11.

You could certainly see the G as the nat7 of an Amaj7. And, you could still see it also as part of Am7, ie with the G note being part of both chords. It would probably sound good to hold the G while the chords change beneath it.

So, to me, no right way or wrong way to think about it. Fact is, I learned it one way decades ago and never thought to adjust.

It has me on the look out for other situations in which two arps are connected by a note in this way.

The G is on the push. It’s also a clear motif - defending arpeggio. So it sort seems like Abmaj7. Quite fun to look at it that way.

Doesn’t matter, it’s just a passing chord, what’s important is the voice movement. Which I outlined above.

[christianm77]

I do think it’s correct, In the sense that note G can be heard as the pedal point melody in the progression Parker outlines. Common progression. Check out the Bud version of Cherokee,etc. I don’t hear that G on the 2+ as part of Am7, don’t think that works musically.

[Pycroft]

First of all , you are to be commended for your taste and ambition in tackling the greatest jazz improvisor who lived . There's enough material in the Omnibook to keep you busy for the rest of your life . What's the best way of working through it ? Slowly .

I agree with the consensus that it's best to try to pick up as much as you can by ear ( the same as Parker did with the early Lester Young recordings - in fact the opening phrase of Ornithology is a quote from Lesters' solo on ' Shoeshine Boy ' ).

I know a lot of it is formidably fast and complex sounding but it's surprising how much can be broken down into relatively manageable chunks of musical syntax ( or licks if you prefer a less pretentious phrase ) . The genius of Parker is in how he was able to manipulate those discrete musical phrases and turn them into longer lines .

So , listen to a solo , pick out a line or phrase you like , slow it down if neccessary and sing it along with the recording . When you're absolutely sure you've got the notes , rhythm and articulation right , then play it on your instrument . Repeat this every day for a few years .

Incidentally , don't sweat the ' theory ' . There was no ' jazz theory ' in Parkers' day . That was all codified , one might say reverse-engineered by white people in the 60s . Parkers' generation were schooled in the Western classical/Romantic tradition to an extent and also in the Swing bands and the accumulated common practice of that tradition . 99% of the example you posted is using major and minor scales with a couple of chromatic passing notes and a couple of funky substitutions . The great thing is the facility with which he manipulates musical ideas .

[christianm77]

Darn, missed the prez quote!

The more I find out about Bird, the more quotes he seems to have. There are a lot of ‘Parker licks’ that can be traced back to earlier musicians, sometimes ones quite obscure to modern musicians - classic example is his use of Alfonse Picout’s line on High Society.

People still play it, but they don’t know where it came from, like people use words Shakespeare invented every day....

[MarkRhodes]

Darn, missed the prez quote!

The more I find out about Bird, the more quotes he seems to have. There are a lot of ‘Parker licks’ that can be traced back to earlier musicians, sometimes ones quite obscure to modern musicians - classic example is his use of Alfonse Picout’s line on High Society.

People still play it, but they don’t know where it came from, like people use words Shakespeare invented every day....

Peter Spitzer's list of tunes Parker quoted from in his playing.

Peter Spitzer Music Blog: Charlie Parker's Musical Quotes

[christianm77]

Peter Spitzer's list of tunes Parker quoted from in his playing.

Peter Spitzer Music Blog: Charlie Parker's Musical Quotes

He’s probably missed some as well!

It might be easier to list the bits of birds playing that isn’t quotes I suspect

[Pycroft]

Parker has probably inspired more spergy/obsessive scholarship than any musician since Beethoven .

For those interested there's an excellent book called ' Charlie Parker his music and life ' by Carl Woideck . With copious annotated samples it traces the roots and development of Parkers style and his various influences - and some very surprising melodic quotes .
Highly recommended .

This is also good for true bebop nerds - Charlie Parker Dissertation Volume II Thomas Owens 1974 : Thomas Owens : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

[MarkRhodes]

He’s probably missed some as well!

It might be easier to list the bits of birds playing that isn’t quotes I suspect

Joe Pass says in one of his videos that you can quote from standards during the A section of any standard in a major key.

I think it may be less a matter of wanting to quote from this or that tune ( sometimes it is intended to be humorous, ironic, to set a mood, pay one’s respects) but I think people who know a lot of tunes and think in terms of tunes have snatched if melody running through their heads much if the time.


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[christianm77]

Joe Pass says in one of his videos that you can quote from standards during the A section of any standard in a major key.

I think it may be less a matter of wanting to quote from this or that tune ( sometimes it is intended to be humorous, ironic, to set a mood, pay one’s respects) but I think people who know a lot of tunes and think in terms of tunes have snatched if melody running through their heads much if the time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Great quote.

Side point: sometimes I think I look for permission where I should instead look for forgiveness in my playing. It's something I recognise in others frequently, but it is also true of myself.

So, has Joe given permission not to look for permission?

[znerken]

So C7 over the F here is a good way of thinking about it then?

By the way, is this very normal in Bebop, since he seems to use it all the time? V over the I.

[TOMMO]

As far as I know a bebop player would emphasize the dom7 sound over most chords/cadences...at least that's what I've been told....

[christianm77]

So C7 over the F here is a good way of thinking about it then?

By the way, is this very normal in Bebop, since he seems to use it all the time? V over the I.

Yeah, sure why not? I mean that line E Eb D Db C is very C7. Notice how the passing tones mean that E D C are all on the beat.

But it does resolve to F chord tones in the end, and I’m not sure the line would work without that resolution on the F chord. Playing C7-F is sort of adding in a cadence.

Personally I would tend to see that in terms of expressing F-C7-F-C7 but I’m not sure it matters too much.

The F or C7 scale is always going to contain those Bb tension notes on the F is used freely- the thing is to resolve them. Notice how this is done in the line. The line does start and resolve to F6/Fmaj7 so that - especially the resolution should be part of the takeaway.

[christianm77]

The Barry Harris quote is ‘Let the dominant dominate.’

I interpret it - The resolution is the least interesting thing about a line from a harmonic perspective, it’s a necessary evil to make the line make sense.

[znerken]

Yeah, sure why not? I mean that line E Eb D Db C is very C7. But it does resolve to F chord tones in the end, and I’m not sure the line would work without that resolution on the F chord. Playing C7-F is sort of adding in a cadence.

Personally I would tend to see that in terms of the F major scale (which is - duh - the same thing from a different perspective) OR - expressing F-C7-F-C7 but I’m not sure it matters too much.

The F or C7 scale is always going to contain those Bb tension notes on the C7, the thing is to resolve them. Notice how this is done in the line. The line does start and resolve to F6 so that - especially the resolution should be part of the takeaway.

You know, that makes me think of something slightly off topic. I have been watching a lot of Barry Greene videos, and he seems to never use arpeggios. I mean, in a way he does. But he always just play scales. So he would play a D dorian, then a G altered, then a C ionian, to take a very simple example. So when he transcribed stuff in his younger days, he always connected things to one scale. So he has like a library in his mind with dorian stuff etc. I would imagine this makes for a whole lot of reusability, compared to the very arpeggio focused approach I am using. Is there generally two schools on this, or does it all meet at the end? I see Sheryl Bailey uses both arpeggios and the other approach I mentioned.

In the Introduction to jazz guitar soloing book, he also focuses a lot on this in his lick writing section. However this is connected to arpeggio. So you write something awesome over a II-V-I in pattern X, then you practice it till death and save it. So when you come over a situation 1(which is II-V-I-I) you have stuff to play.

[christianm77]

You know, that makes me think of something slightly off topic. I have been watching a lot of Barry Greene videos, and he seems to never use arpeggios. I mean, in a way he does. But he always just play scales. So he would play a D dorian, then a G altered, then a C ionian, to take a very simple example. So when he transcribed stuff in his younger days, he always connected things to one scale. So he has like a library in his mind with dorian stuff etc. I would imagine this makes for a whole lot of reusability, compared to the very arpeggio focused approach I am using. Is it generally two schools on this, or does it all meet at the end? I see Sheryl Bailey uses both arpeggios and the other approach I mentioned.

I don’t know Greene’s playing.

It’s possible to think scalically and still play arpeggios. You just play parts of the scale in thirds instead of steps. This is how Barry Harris conceptualises it.

Another example, Adam Rogers is really modal in his concept, but breaks them up into arpeggios a lot.

But yeah, I think that’s two schools really in terms of concept. Chord scales into lines and arpeggios/embellishment/substitutions into lines. The latter has a good claim to be more traditional.

In practice I use both, but the Barry Harris way of using scales is different again.

But chord scales will not sound good played as scales, too boring and stepwise, so you have to introduce variety into the melodic contour. Transcription helps with this.

Arpeggios can have the opposite, but related, problem - too much up and down. So neither is a solution to coming up with strong melodies.

Personally I think more chord scale oriented players can be a bit lacking in movement in their lines if they haven’t checked out the language much. The interaction between harmonic dissonance and rhythm is important for making the language of jazz swing. It’s all interrelated.

When you look at Bird, that’s really manifest, which is why he is still considered a basic bedrock of the music.

[znerken]

I don’t know Greene’s playing.

It’s possible to think scalically and still play arpeggios. You just play parts of the scale in thirds instead of steps. This is how Barry Harris conceptualises it.

OTOH Adam Rogers is really modal in his concept, but breaks them up into arpeggios a lot.

But yeah, I think that’s two schools really in terms of concept. Chord scales into lines and arpeggios/embellishment/substitutions into lines. The latter has a good claim to be more traditional.

In practice I use both, but the Barry Harris way of using scales is different again.

But chord scales will not sound good played as scales, too boring and stepwise, so you have to introduce variety into the melodic contour. Transcription helps with this.

Arpeggios can have the opposite, but related, problem - too much up and down. So neither is a solution to coming up with strong melodies.

Personally I think more chord scale oriented players can be a bit lacking in movement in their lines. The interaction between harmonic dissonance and rhythm is important for making the language of jazz swing. It’s all interrelated.

When you look at Bird, that’s really manifest, which is why he is still considered a basic bedrock of the music.

I guess by going through both approaches, you get the best of both I asked my teacher about this a while back, and he answered very shortly "both". So when you see a II-V-I, you should know the arpeggios underneath the position you are in, but also how to play a scale, if you want to pick notes. One very important benefit of arpeggios I guess is that you can easily approach your target note, which makes your solo sound like something more than just random shit. It sounds like you know where you are in the form.

[christianm77]

There are other approaches too. I mean once you get your head around just playing the changes, you have to explore ways to play meaningful music through the changes.... but that’s another can of worms....

[christianm77]

I guess by going through both approaches, you get the best of both I asked my teacher about this a while back, and he answered very shortly "both". So when you see a II-V-I, you should know the arpeggios underneath the position you are in, but also how to play a scale, if you want to pick notes. One very important benefit of arpeggios I guess is that you can easily approach your target note, which makes your solo sound like something more than just random shit. It sounds like you know where you are in the form.

Yeah my personal history is I started in CST, hated playing bop tunes with lots of chords. Couldnt work out how to make the scales work.

I then read an interview with John Etheridge that said in his opinion players should start with a arps and chord tones and that scales can wait, so did that and got a whole lot better at rapid changes.

Then I started getting into other things, like Barry, Tristano, etc

More recently I’ve been applying more cst stuff. But very often it’s using traids to get cst sounds and stuff like that.

As a teacher I would recommend any student spend time practicing triad and seventh chord arps through tunes in all positions they can think of learning to link one to the next. Once you can do this, you’ll find yourself a lot more comfortable with the tune.

Then you can do scale outlines and perpetual scale ex etc. But you’ll know where the chord tones are so it will be stronger.

[znerken]

There are other approaches too. I mean once you get your head around just playing the changes, you have to explore ways to play meaningful music through the changes.... but that’s another can of worms....

I'll be 79 before my solo sounds half decent. Why didn't I start with different than jazz

[christianm77]

I'll be 79 before my solo sounds half decent. Why didn't I start with different than jazz

Start with chord tones. One foot in front of the other.

Best not to think about the destination. There isn’t one lol

[christianm77]

Oh yeah, beyond basic skills it depends what kind of music you want to play. You could just play straightahead jazz and never think of chord scales in your life.

[znerken]

This is still really bothering me. I really don't understand how to analyse and come to a conclusion what the soloist were playing over the original chord. I can see the D7 over the G^7 in the first bar now, after you guys told me.. But for the rest I am baffled... I feel like I am wasting so much potential by just learning the solo, but not being able to put the licks on correct "tags". It's not easy to steal and put licks into patterns/positions, when you don't know what they really are.

[voxss]

I would say the easiest way to learn bop is to put the book aside and do it by tab....Book available....youll end playing them backwards...they just dont seem so hard that way..tadpoles(notes) will be frogs having you leap about instead being stuck in the infernal box.....of course the rocket science is left behind..

[znerken]

I would say the easiest way to learn bop is to put the book aside and do it by tab....Book available....youll end playing them backwards...they just dont seems so hard that way..tadpoles(notes) will be frogs having you leap about instead being stuck in the infernal box.

You are misunderstanding me. I can play the entire solo, and I have learned it by the sheet music. I have no problem with that.

[Stanford J17]

Some random, hopefully helpful things:

1. Hal Galpers book "Forward Motion" helped me a lot on those things. In a nutshell he advises to just look at the notes on the strong beats (1&3). What happens in between are just ways to connect the dots.
This advise really helped me to break longer (and therefore hard to use) lines into small (much more usable) pieces.

2. You will never know what Bird really thought! And it doesn't really matter, as long as you find a way to use his lines.

3. A good way, to get something out of this solos, is to play around with the lines you like.
Some examples using the F-Major line:

4. Write out etudes using his lines. My example is again using bits and pieces of the F-Major line.

In the examples above, I've invented stuff on my own, but you could also put different lines from Parker together (that's where my first point comes in;-)

Hope this helps,
Christoph