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Originally Posted by Kiefer.Wolfowitz
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08-07-2014 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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As a simple rule, people like what they know and understand.
Jazz was popular when people could dance on it and that was Swing era.
If one can't whistle giant steps in the shower chances are it will never be quite popular...
Pop, country, rock, folk even blues are music style people understand.
Jazz is too cerebral music for the common folk and no longer an expression mean for breaking rules anymore...
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Originally Posted by djangoles
State may be a great equalizer - eg. socialist countries achieved universal access and appreciation of "high culture". There was a time and place when kids watched Shakespeare plays on TV, went to Saturday kids' shows played by local symphonic orchestra. When going to opera, theater or ballet was a normal thing for people of all levels of income. And yes - jazz was popular music among high school kids.
Then "democracy" came in and the same kids became consumers = dumping ground for WORTHLESS forms of musical "culture" - gangsta rap, death metal and all that nonsense - invented by record companies to push shock factor. And the utopia was over.
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Originally Posted by SuperFour00
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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Originally Posted by woland
I see value in what you call "high culture," but the notion of high culture is now branded as elitist, imperialistic, racist, sexist, and on the litany runs.
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
Sure - anything that has any connection with independent thinking is branded by "elitist" etc by propaganda.
Just as Jack Nicholson's character says in "Easy Rider" - they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom. But they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em....Last edited by woland; 08-07-2014 at 04:40 PM.
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Originally Posted by fritz jones
I think Allan Holdsworth is also from Yorkshire.
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Originally Posted by Kiefer.Wolfowitz
Last edited by Patrick2; 08-07-2014 at 08:44 PM.
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Originally Posted by woland
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Originally Posted by woland
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Jazz started its slow, painful death the moment its practicioners began believing the music was all about them and not the audience, the moment we left it up to academia to keep it on life support, when we started treating the music as a status symbol of the wealthy, the moment we began worshipping youth,...
I mean, death is certain for a genre when a $70,000 piece of paper is needed to learn it.
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
Jazz is no longer popular, as I suggested, because the jazz audience has died off and not been replaced. That has nothing to do with race or racism. Why the powerful and wealthy put Classical music, ballet, and opera on a pedestal, but not Jazz, that's certainly something to think about. I'd like to know the answer to that question.
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Originally Posted by Bill C
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Originally Posted by SuperFour00
So in Classical music, ballet, and opera there is a history and tradition of support. Not so in jazz.
Jazz doesn't get the kind of support that Classical music, ballet, and opera gets; neither does disco, pop, polka, rock, rap, or hip-hop.Last edited by fep; 08-07-2014 at 07:00 PM.
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I would submit that here in America, country music continues to endure and thrive because it is the favorite music of people that live in rural areas, especially in the South. When ever I have travelled through rural areas, the radio stations are full of country.
Because of this, Country and Western music is a part of their culture and identity. And this gets past from generation to generation.
Also, I believe the public as a whole wants to hear words in their music. They want it to express their frustration, sexual leanings, joy, and even their anger depending on the person.
Jazz has no core cultural group claiming it, it may not adequately express what people want to hear, and just as importantly, the radio stations don't want to play it but instead play what the record companies want.
I have read in many places that most music-oriented radio stations are owned in some fashion by a record company or some conglomerate that owns a record company.
Finally, music is part of rebellion and for most young people, Jazz represents the past generation(s), from which they want to differentiate themselves.
There are probably many other factors but these are the ones I have personally seen and experienced.
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Originally Posted by fep
Interestingly, Classical music was built on the foundations of the Folk musics of various European, and to an extent, some exotic cultures. Those Folk styles were presumeably popular with the populations of those cultures. When Classical music evolved to the point of being far more advanced and complex than it's ancestral forms, it began to be supported (for various personal, nationalistic and political reasons) by powerful groups and individuals. From popular to subsidized, all several hundred years ago. Similarly, when "Jass" music, performed often in brothels and speakeasies, evolved into a very advanced and creative form, it crossed tha same set of lines, only more recently.
Disco, Pop, Rock, etc. are commercialized forms of music. I don't categorize Jazz with those styles because it has grown beyond the scope of those styles.
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Regular people just want to go out, party, dance, and have a good time. Music that supports this agenda is still popular. Ragtime, Dixie, Swing musicians knew they were entertainers, it was definitely social music.
It was none other than Miles, who developed and explored the whole spectrum of serious jazz, that came to the realization that jazz was no longer hip with any street credibility and he had to address that to try and remain relevant to folks "on the corner". He knew when a style of jazz had run it's course and was obsolete. Gotta keep changing.
Now we lament, because for 50+ years, so many fans and musicians wanted to keep jazz trapped in the 50's and 60's styles, so that the average Joe on the street believes that is all jazz is, some dead old music. It isn't true, but that's what public perception is and they're not about to change their mind any time too soon.
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Here's a site for information about the current state of country music.
great site. many discussion similar to this one.
Saving Country Music
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Originally Posted by SuperFour00
i don't want the fed picking winners and losers though, I'm for keeping Uncle Sam OUT.
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Originally Posted by fumblefingers
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Originally Posted by SuperFour00
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Originally Posted by SuperFour00
Hear the one about about the nuns who formed a string quartet?
Couple guys were listening and one says, "they're pretty good".
The other guy say's, "Does the Pope know about this?"
Bah boom!
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Originally Posted by fep
Wyatt Wilkie - New Builds
Today, 12:23 AM in The Builder's Bench