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03-31-2015, 06:17 AM #1126destinytot Guest
The firmly-anchored pinky is a huge reveal - thanks again, nunocpinto - and the hovering hand reminds me of this levitation illusion. ("Balducci Picking"?!)
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03-31-2015 06:17 AM
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About the anchor.
As long as I've been working at this, some time now, I've had 'the pinky on the plate.' But it just occurred to me yesterday that touching is not the same thing as anchoring. (Or anchoring effectively.) I
realized this immediately after picking up my pinky and anchoring with the next (third?) finger. When I do that, the finger makes for a good pivot point because the position remains (more nearly) constant.
When I use the pinky (alone), it remains in contact with the plate (--pickguard) but not always the same way. Sometimes it is the tip of the pinky, other times it is the side of it. Also, it slides around the pickguard. Always touching but rarely the same place / same way for long.
I think this is the main cause of my inconsistency.
I'm using the third finger now to impress upon my mind and nervous system the feel of a (more) fixed anchor. The difference was immediate in terms of accuracy and consistency of tone.
How dim do I feel for taking so long to realize this? Quite. But better today (-or in this case, last night) than tomorrow or the day after....
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3625: See the pics below. The pad (the opposite of the nail is on the pickguard and the finger is slightly bend pressing firmly but not hard). This is how peter plays. I have adopted this position also. It works very well with my hand and it gives me great freedom reaching out for any string or string sets.
Originally Posted by 3625
On these pics i have lifted the other fingers so you can see below; they are normally in a lower position and relaxed. Benson plays on the side of the pinky and sometimes the 3rd finger also.
But the point is. The anchoring is the fulcrum were all the picking emanates. It allows that you harm, shoulder and wrist are totally relaxed, and enables you to play from the harm, from the wrist, or a combination of the two. The rest stroke picking takes care of the other aspects of playing, making you lines very rhythmically organized and punchy, and that's were Benson precise lines and groove comes from.
Last edited by nunocpinto; 03-31-2015 at 03:03 PM.
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Thanks for the pics. Since trying this with the 3rd finger, I understand more clearly what you mean. I may switch back to the pinky but if so, it will be with a renewed understanding of proper anchoring. Originally Posted by nunocpinto
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Hey, thanks so much! I appreciate you taking the time to make those photos. I'll work on trying my pinky like that and see what happens. It's quite different than using the side of the finger and doing little rolls as you move to the bass strings and back. Originally Posted by nunocpinto
Also, your pick grip - that looks a lot like Peter Farrell's - are you intentionally copying his grip there?
All this info you've passed on here has been really cool btw
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Originally Posted by 3625
Hey, thanks so much! I appreciate you taking the time to make those photos. I'll work on trying my pinky like that and see what happens. It's quite different than using the side of the finger and doing little rolls as you move to the bass strings and back.
Also, your pick grip - that looks a lot like Peter Farrell's - are you intentionally copying his grip there?
All this info you've passed on here has been really cool btw
You still do those little rolls, but they are more subtle because you have a smaller pressure point.
yes it's the grip he taught me, and it works really great for me
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nunocpinto you are doing us all an enormous service
i've had to change really quite a lot to get the whole movement (whether wrist-based or arm-based) to pivot around the pinky - but i keep getting better and better as i get more success with this
the breakthroughs are coming with much greater frequency than before - i'm really very happy
i'm working on a lot of things at once now
1. using the very tip of the thumb - so that i have to keep an ultra-short nail (be careful not to screw yourself for four days by cutting it too short) - to press the pick into the index. this changes the whole position of the hand so that the pinky pad is easy to push gently onto the pick guard)
2. pressing the pick into the index just below the first joint - so there's a bit of pick sticking out past the finger - but you can almost feel the way the pick moves with the pad of your index (this feels grrrreat)
3. pressing as gently as i can (after the right position has been found) - so the pick can flip-flop as i play - makes a great sound
4. using wrist for medium and slow tempos - and arm for fast passages (great to make up exercises combining eighth and sixteenth note passages)
5. keeping orientation of pinky/hand/wrist/arm the same the whole time by using restrokes on all ascending string changes and downstrokes on all descending string changes (tough to start with for me 'cause i was doing lots of descending triplet phrases which - as nunocpinto put it in an earlier post - requires you to 'reverse' the picking. this may be cool later on, but to start with i think it might be crucial to keep the pinky/hand/wrist/arm in exactly the same orientation as much as possible)
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a pic of my hand
hardest pics i've ever taken i think - i did not move my hand out of the way because i wanted it all to be as close to 'as is' as poss.
one of the biggest things for me is using the very top of the thumb-pad and pressing (increasingly lightly) into the index just below the first joint and at the side (you often see gb's thumb 'behind' or 'tucked into' his index and this is huge i think). this modification (before i was using the flatter part of the thumb pad - such that my nail did not have to be perfectly trimmed) makes it poss. for me to get the pinky-pad not the side onto the pick guard and to really start to feel the whole thing moving around the pinky pad as pivot.Last edited by Groyniad; 04-01-2015 at 08:47 AM.
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That's a great pic, Jon. I'm working like that, a "healthy third" of the pick sticking out. (On D'Andrea Mediums the letter "M", for medium, appears about a third of the way up from the tip of the pick; I use it for a visual reference.) Originally Posted by Groyniad
a pic of my hand
hardest pics i've ever taken i think - i did not move my hand out of the way because i wanted it all to be as close to 'as is' as poss.
one of the biggest things for me is using the very top of the thumb-pad and pressing (increasingly lightly) into the index just below the first joint and at the side (you often see gb's thumb 'behind' or 'tucked into' his index and this is huge i think). this modification (before i was using the flatter part of the thumb pad - such that my nail did not have to be perfectly trimmed) makes it poss. for me to get the pinky-pad not the side onto the pick guard and to really start to feel the whole thing moving around the pinky pad as pivot.
I also agree about having to keep that nail short....
Using the tip (or pad) of the anchor finger is a game changer for me. It allows for greater consistency.
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By the way, I got an email from JC last night that included the 'Advanced Tips' video posted here last week. In the message, he mentions a deal for players: the tutorial and a month of coaching. I'm not sure what the price is though. I've written back to him for more details that might be posted here, as I suspect this thread has some followers since the deal offered last year.
Stay tuned....
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I just want to update those who have a genuine interest in learning or sharing this technique. I have upgraded to a new platform that removes some previous issues of getting a large video file through peoples email servers into their in-box. This will eliminate the issue that has turned up at times of people waiting for their tutorial to arrive.
You can simply go directly to this new Tutorial Course Link, and once you pay and register you can access the Tutorial right away as long as you like, without worrying about when the video tutorial file link arrives.
https://jcstyllesjazzguitarcoach.zen...cking-tutorial
A few things to note:
1/ This is the Coupon Code TD3WGTB9KD that you must Copy & Paste to obtain a discount, and it replaces any others previously advised-TD3WGTB9KD
2/ For the time being ,anyone ordering the Tutorial gets 1 month support coaching with me automatically uincluded to assess and adjust your adoption of the technique, and access to the members area for the fine tuning materials included.
3/ There is now the option for those who find value and results in sharing this information with others to do so as an affiliate, which means you can obtain your own unique link and paste it wherever you want, and if someone orders the course through your link, you will receive a $25 payment directly to your Paypal account 30 days after they have ordered it. ( The 30 day period is simply because a 30 day refund option exists that must expire first)
4/ If you already own the Tutorial and want to become an affiliate, you need not purchase again, you simply visit the page link above and register, and then apply to be an affiliate.
Cheers-
JC Stylles
https://jcstyllesjazzguitarcoach.zenler.com/courses/jc-stylles-benson-picking-tutorial
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..automatically "included"..
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I'll have to look into this! ;o) I feel like I've been encouraging people to buy the tutorial for some time now. I hope those who have taken an interest in this thread since the deal you offered last year take advantage of it now. Originally Posted by JC Stylles
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Sure Mark- I understand. I wish had that option earlier, but I only got it online yesterday, so am doing what I can. I recommend you grab a link.
Cheers-JC Stylles
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I did----you can see it in my signature here. Originally Posted by JC Stylles
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Gotcha!
Cheers!!
JC Stylles
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I actually did do just that, Mark. On the basis of this thread and the activity associated with it, I bought the tutorial when JC was offering the special deal (last fall?). My biggest stumblings blocks are (1) the thumb overshooting the index and (2) my index wants to flex b/c of (1). Other than that, no problems and the technique is far superior to my previous picking. It totally works - thanks JC! Also, love Blakey Grease. Killer.
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Oligonucleotide- Just so you know. it took me a year when I was a teenager for my thumb to stop wanting to bend out at the joint. I had issues with it too. That's why I recommend the other exercises away from the instrument too, as eventually it starts to take heed and heal to your desires. Keep at it!
JC Stylles
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That's good to hear! (And so is "Blakey Grease." "Hipsippy Blues" is grooving now.) Originally Posted by oligonucleotide
I learned a lot from the tutorial. The discussion here has helped a lot. The final revelation was just this week----anchoring. I have anchored with the pinky all along but it wasn't working for me the way it is supposed to. When I switched to using the 3rd finger (-which may not be forever), I immediately realized the difference between anchoring on the fingertip as opposed to the side / edge of it. It immediately made me more consistent because my hand's position while playing was more consistent.
Anyway, JC got me out of the bleachers and down onto the field. Now, with the sort of refinements he said each player must make in his own time and way, I'm a markedly better player. I think in another six months I could be, gasp, pretty danged good! ;o) (Pray for me!)
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let me just make this comment for reference sake
its totally obvious to me now - after having two days of unmitigated success after months of mitigated success
that when nunocpinto says that without the pinky-anchor you'll never get the accuracy because there's no fixed point for everything to relate to - he is totally correct
if you're not gripping the pick in a way that enables you to plant either your pinky-pad or the first knuckle of the pinky on to the guard so that it can act as a pivot for all the hand movement - then you will not be able to develop the capacities that the players who nail this technique are able to develop (with that incredible mr. wilson as the latest in a long line of examples)
i could not plant the pinky before because my pick grip wasn't quite right - now i can and e.g. i'm able to rattle off sixteenth note passages with striking accuracy and clarity at medium tempos in a way i've never been able to do before. it all FEELS so solid and comfortable
but its all about getting the picking movements (whether wrist-based or arm-based) to become movements-around that planted pinkyLast edited by Groyniad; 04-06-2015 at 06:17 PM.
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04-03-2015, 12:22 PM #1146destinytot GuestThe organ trio gig was last night. It was a really enjoyable evening, and we've already got a date at (another) great venue on the strength of it - word-of-mouth recommendation makes all the difference. The only recording is 17secs caught on a mobile, which I've uploaded to share here. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
I had a great time grooving along and playing rhythmically-strong lines with a big fat tone, but it's probably a good thing there's no guitar in the clip... because, thanks to discussion on this forum (especially on this - my favourite - thread), I'm just getting started .
As the organist wants to join me at my Saturday restaurant gig tomorrow (and the owners have kindly agreed to make it worth his while for him to go to the trouble of schlepping his digital Hammond B3 through the narrow, cobbled bohemian streets), perhaps someone will record some more.
Last edited by destinytot; 04-03-2015 at 12:45 PM.
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I'm going to put this clip up here,as an example of why it's good to work on the picking exercises I recommend in my Tutorial. For something as simple as a blues, things could get tiresome quickly if your only option rhythmically is playing 8th notes or less.By working on your picking with 8th notes, triplets and 16ths though, you give yourself more options rhythmically , ontop of whatever you want to do harmonically and melodically. Here you can see how from starting off in 8ths in the time feel, then moving to triplets, starts to give the solo a more flowing forward motion feel, and then breaking into 16th's as you start to climax the solo, simply allows you more chance to build and develop your solo.
Once again, it's important to remind ourselves that technique is just a means to the end, namely being able to express yourself succinctly without the mechanics of the instrument getting in the way . By putting in the work, anyone of you can reach the point of playing what you are hearing. Oftentimes though, if you get a bum steer early on as you are putting your technique together, it can hold you back from ever getting to what you are aiming for.
It is however, never too late to start turning your ship in the right direction!
Best to go to 3.03 of the clip to start. That way you don't have to endure the drummer and organist crossing the beat, as I had to at the time!
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/TYojjajWdLk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Cheers- JC Stylles
1st Squeeze - jazzguitarcoach
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By the way- you guys up above posting pics of your right hand. That pinky is NOT supposed to be anchored on the tip if you are trying to put the whole thing together. Have a look at most any George right hand photo playing single lines, and you will see that is NOT what happens. But you are of course welcome to modify it as you see fit. As long as you are aware of the difference in detail.
Cheers- JC Stylles
Home - jazzguitarcoach
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Good stuff, JC! Thanks. Originally Posted by JC Stylles
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Well, JC, here's my question. When I anchor on the side of the pinky, I'm very inconsistent. The hand seems to slightly 'roll over' away from the strings. When I anchor on the tip of the 3rd finger (-an over-correction most likely, but perhaps a necessary move back in the right direction), I'm much more consistent. Originally Posted by JC Stylles
If one wants to start with a solid sense of picking consistency (-with the rest of the grip being as you teach), what would you recommend?
Further, when you see a picture of a finger touching, you can't tell how that feels to the person playing. Whether it's applying pressure or just grazing the surface of the pickguard. That's a big difference but it is hard to assess from a picture. What does it feel like when your pinky touches the pickguard (to start out with, as you get ready to play)?
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