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Well yeah
Originally Posted by AndyV
, but not what I meant. I mean point to a Blooz wacker that turned into a bona fide Jazz player. In how many years?
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01-23-2023 08:31 AM
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WOW. I'd love it if my kid got into this. She also quotes the minor key solo from sweet child o mine to start hers. That's a nice easter egg for the parents. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Bernstein, Sco, and Sco all did within short spans of time. I don’t recall the exact timing, and obviously maturing into real jazz artists took years. But they all started playing jazz in high school and were good enough to gig and to get admitted to top jazz programs pretty much right away. Originally Posted by princeplanet
Well yeah, but not what I meant. I mean point to a Blooz wacker that turned into a bona fide Jazz player. In how many years?
I know personally lots of people who are some variant on this path, though none is at that level.
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If true, then all power to them. My experience is somewhat different - once blues heavy players hit their 20's, there has been no one that I've known that has been able to cross over to Jazz. Mind you, only a handful have ever wanted to! Hmmm, actually, there was one guy that I helped to cross over to some extent, and come to think of it I did myself in my 30's, but it took many years (many of which were needed just to undo the countless troublesome habits acquired playing that damn Rock music Originally Posted by John A.
...)
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We need to stop looking at jazz as something you "graduate up to," and more as something you play because you can't imagine NOT playing it.
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Right, so right! And then some, can't imagine NOT playing it, but still cannot play it but try with all their hearts to get it. I am one of them. I crossed over the blues/jazz threshold but I struggle to find my way. I am a good dabbler and have lots of great jazz musical ideas and elements to my playing but struggle with the changes. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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But these two ways of looking at it (among countless others) are not mutually exclusive, surely? Besides, I can't imagine approaching playing and studying Jazz as anything but a continuous path of "graduation". Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
But I hear what you're saying, it doesn't have to be like that for everyone, and maybe shouldn't be. Just for us masochists....
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Originally Posted by princeplanet
I'm just thinking about comments like "such and such is a great player, why don't they play jazz?"
The only reason to play jazz is because you love it. This is why when you see the people who join here who say something like "I want to learn some jazz because I think it will improve my __________ playing" they never do and it never does, because it doesn't work that way.
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I’m new here, but I’m going to respectfully, partially disagree with Mr B.
While I agree that people who start learning jazz because they think it’ll help their XXX playing don’t likely become even passable jazz players, I suspect it still helps their XXX chops.
In my case, studying jazz is good for my ear. That’s good for everything, including and especially the stuff people ask me to play.
But I really do love it and hope to play it well some day.
I’d probably get better faster if I bought that Heritage Golden Eagle I have my eye on. . . . .
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If you're talking about people who truly are heavy blues players with active performing careers then it's tough to make the switch for a host of logistical reasons, but otherwise I don't think there some cognitive expiration date on learning the music to a decent level within not all that long a time. Let's not forget that plenty of blues players bring at least a few standards into their repertoire from the get go, and it's not as if blues and jazz are completely foreign to each other. Someone who is truly a heavy blues player can at least fake it convincingly on a few jazz tunes. Originally Posted by princeplanet
If true, then all power to them. My experience is somewhat different - once blues heavy players hit their 20's, there has been no one that I've known that has been able to cross over to Jazz. Mind you, only a handful have ever wanted to! Hmmm, actually, there was one guy that I helped to cross over to some extent, and come to think of it I did myself in my 30's, but it took many years (many of which were needed just to undo the countless troublesome habits acquired playing that damn Rock music ...)
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[QUOTE=mr. beaumont;1244317]I'm just thinking about comments like "such and such is a great player, why don't they play jazz?"
The only reason to play jazz is because you love it. This is why when you see the people who join here who say something like "I want to learn some jazz because I think it will improve my __________ playing" they never do and it never does, because it doesn't work that way.[/QUOTE
Yes, you have to love it. That is the first step, and it is not a step in which you choose or decide. Jazz either touches your soul or it doesn't. And if it doesn't, then do not bother.
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No, I can definitely see that. Originally Posted by StuartF
I guess I just don't like to see jazz put up on a pedestal too much. Non-jazz players already think jazz players "look down on them," no need to feed into the stereotype, I say.
Jazz is just music...yeah, you probably have to work a litter harder to even play it at a low level, but it's still just music.
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Yeah, really good blues players definitely understand the concept of playing changes. Even if you can trace it all their lines back to a blues scale, they know what notes work best over what chord. Originally Posted by John A.
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I love jazz, always have even before I started playing guitar. When I did start getting serious into guitar, it was Hendrix and Chicago blues that made me pick it up. And it was nothing but that every day for me for years....then I started down the path of self learning jazz. In my slow way of learning, and my own way of playing. I have so long to go to even be considered anything of worth, but here I am today...this is my jazz playing (today). For what it's worth. It has definitely taken my approach to so many new areas and the blues never did that for me. I struggle with the changes, especially if I don't really know the tune and just try to improvise blindly. That doesn't work.
But this is a good example of me and where I am. I have my own way through it. Is this good? Does it absolutely suck? I don't know...that is up to the listener. But I like it, and it fulfills my heart to play it. I don't read music, which is partly the reason learning the changes is harder for me. It's an uphill battle the way I do it, but I can't quit it either because I love the music.
Is this better than John Mayer could do wit it? Doubt it....he would probably school me on his very first take after I tried 78 times to get it right...lol
Oh yeah, and this is a $400 archtop. Loar LH-309.
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Originally Posted by guitarvegas
Hey, is there a bunch to work on? Sure...but jazz is a process, and you're clearly going through it. Kudos to you for putting yourself out there.
And I CAN hear that blues influence, and that's a good thing. Actually, I'm of the opinion that you can have blues without jazz, but jazz without any blues--even just a smidge-- is never gonna be as good as the stuff that does have that smidgen of blues...
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I'm not sure where everyone on this thread is coming from geographically or generationally, but my experience is that both of those affect how people think about genres. Where I come from (USA/NYC, born in the '60s), the boundaries between genres are not that rigid. Most of my contemporaries (ranging from pure amateurs of limited musical development to serious pros, with lots of serious amateurs in between) play a little bit of more than one styles, even if they have one style that is their main thing. But a lot of the non-US players I've encountered are much more locked into a specific genre (and maybe younger people are too because of the increased ossification of boundaries between all kinds of cultural things?). Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
So for someone of my approximate background, there's this sort of trail leading from 60's/70's jam-rock both to precursor blues styles and to jazz and fusion styles. So you listen to Allman Bros, Dead, Traffic, P-funk, Little Feat, Hendrix, Byrds, Motown, Stevie Wonder, Santana, BS&T, Steely Dan, Joni, etc., and you get to Django, BB, Wes, Kenny B, Louis Jordan, Billie Holliday, Miles, Trane, Bird, Weather Report, etc. The stuff all kind of connects. But at least in my experience, Europeans are more likely to have started some kind of jazz school earlier on, and are less likely to have gone through this kind of journey through the family tree of American music.
I think that affects the whole "jazz is SOOOO hard" thing. If you think of it as something completely foreign to whatever you play and listen to then, yeah, it's hard. But if it's just another flavor of (or at least has overlap with) things you're already into, and you have some sense of harmony and playing changes from that other stuff, then it's not a quantum leap to play it.Last edited by John A.; 01-23-2023 at 02:06 PM.
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Hi. Thank you so much for saying what you said. Gives me a feeling oh hope when at other times I feel so lost. Somedays are good ones. All days are blessings, but today you have shined some light and hope into my musical quest. I thank you sir! Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Charlie Batty comes to mind as a guy who made his name with straight ahead blues but can play jazz. No genre is above or below any other - it's all music .
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I'm a fan of John. I like a lot of his songs and he's a great blues player. I first became aware of how well he plays blues watching a video of him at a Crossroads Festival. I thought his playing on the videos above was tasty. I like the vocal too. He may have hit a clinker or two on Misty, but for the most part was pretty on. Some of it reminded my of George Benson. Given his success, I don't think it would be in his best interest to become a strictly jazz player. I'm sure he could do a good job at a jazz inspired album if he wanted to.
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B-I-N-G-O! Every great jazz musician that I've ever known and/or played with is or has been obsessed with becoming a competent (or great) jazz musician at some point or another. It's clear that while John definitely appreciates great jazz music and musicians, he is clearly not obsessed with playing that music. A friend of mine went to Berklee with John and he was obsessed with blues music (especially SRV) and it shows because he plays that music authentically and with a lot of passion. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Last edited by jbromusic; 01-25-2023 at 09:37 PM.
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If he would put that pic of him in a monokini on the cover and call it My Body is a Wonderland.... I might buy the CD.
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There is no shortage of girls playing guitars. We can thank Taylor Swift for that. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Maybe 10 years ago. When I was teaching beginners back then every girl was inspired to pick it up by Swiftie. But she's a synth pop star now. Originally Posted by Litterick
I don't know who influences kids to play nowadays...guess there's still metal. Ed Sheeran? Even his stuff doesn't have much guitar in it anymore. All the money is in dance music.
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The retailers say the market is sustained by girls buying acoustic guitars.
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It is humorous how this thread went from 2011 to 2023 in the blink of an eye. Ray Charles comes to mind as someone who made a name in the R and B/Gospel idiom but dug deeply and freely into jazz.
Personally there's something about Mayer that always struck me as inauthentic, even as I admire his love for music, devotion to his craft and desire to better himself.
When he opens his mouth to sing I don't feel it. I like his guitar playing a bit better.
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