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Its good we can all appreciate each other's taste in Jazz. Man! There are so many different songs that people call "Jazz." And the array of tones are endless.
I am not a big fan of distortion in Jazz. Others love it!
Grant Green's tone really satisfies my ears, and when he is really cooking on the guitar, I am in Jazz heaven! (Although I liked JazzPunk's little funk video, there).
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07-31-2011 07:22 PM
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You got that right. Harmony needs to rule not strife and contention. sheesh.
Originally Posted by whatswisdom
And we can all live in harmony. Why can't Washington DC do the freakin' same!
Anyway music doesn't have to be complicated to be cool or happening. Seems like I hear alot of players trying to play complicated things all the time but their playing sounds somewhat contrived and lacks that feeling or groove thing.
About to listen to some great jazz music and marvel at the beauty of it all lol. Have a nice day all.
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I have this theory that guys who started out on pop/rock pentatonic style playing and have moved onto Jazz find a lot of GG too easy, or reminiscent of their pent noodling days = not impressed! There are few times where you'd be left thinking "Cripes, what is he thinking there?" . With guys like Wes, it's downright confounding as much as it is entertaining. Like a good magic trick, we are in awe of that which we do not fully comprehend.
Just a theory.....
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I transcribed one his (imho 'best') solos from the early part of his career.
“Grantstand” by Grant Green aswas
He was great!
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I really liked that song. Loved the groove on the head (ain't sax/guitar a great combination?). Thought the comping was pretty dull, though. Originally Posted by Jazzpunk
Throwin' on this side of Grant's playing and headin' to the beach on a gorgeous California day always puts me in a good mood!
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Well said. Isn't it great to have guitarists so widely different? Some days I'm in the mood to listen to GG all day and imerse myself in the blues-i-ness of it all. Other days I have to marvel at the genius of Wes. Then it's Emily, Sco, Martino. ... I like to listen to the same tune back-to-back as played by different guitarists, too. Anyone ever do this? That's what its all about, IMHO. Originally Posted by Double 07
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I can't listen to him. I've been exhausted listening to why people love him. I don't care what kind of pickups or amps he had, his articulation really annoys me and he had to of heard that but didn't think it sounded bad so left it like that.
I won't deny he can swing but there are MANY ways to swing and I don't dig his swing. Many great jazz artists of all intruments have their own unique way of swinging and it's up to each listener to decide whether or not they like that swing. I don't like his.
Also, why is it whenever somebody puts a "bluesy" aspect into their playing they get, for lack of a better term, more "street credit"? I've never gotten why people think that is such a plus.
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Ha! Ha! Ha! Davekain, how do you really feel about Grant G?!?
Oh, the love/hate relationships we have with certain music and certain musicians! I respect your opinion and am amused by the how steadfast you are in your feelings concerning GG. I have a few artists that annoy me as well, while others bore me or are so far out there that I can't relate.
For those with which I can't relate, I wonder to myself if it is because of their music or is it because of the limitations of my jazz palette/ear? Or, maybe I need to share their view of life or emotional makeup to appreciate them better?
Oh well. Enough analysis. It is what it is.
Thanks for your honesty.
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I mean, don't get me wrong. I get it I would just rather listen to Jimmy Raney. Originally Posted by AlsoRan
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GG serves his purpose. music is meant to be felt, not analyzed. i may throw on some Joe Pass if i want to learn a cool way to reharmonize a tune, but as soon as i do that, its back to somebody that doesnt swing kind of square and have terrible tone. no offense, thats just my preference.
if there was somebody that had the tone and built a solo like Wes, listened like Jim Hall, played solo guitar like Joe, had the chops and rhythm of George Benson, and the soul of Grant Green, I would probably think they were too perfect.
in the immortal words of Levon Helm, "you take what you need and leave the rest".Last edited by mattymel; 08-01-2011 at 05:04 PM.
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I do like grant's playing...the blues part of him I get because of his background, he was a blues and r&b player in st. Louis.
I also don't buy into the "just because you're bluesy gives you cred" thing though, but probably because I'm from chicago, land of 10,000 bad blues guitar players (and a handful of really good ones)
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This thread inspired me to put on some old GG records. My vote is now settled:
Are you naysayers sure you're talkin' about the same GG? Man, I love the guy, swingin', cool, inventive, good dialogue with the band, good song selection.
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Yes Kamlapati, we're sure.
I don't find him inventive at all. I find that he uses the same old tired licks in far too many situations, and over and over again in the same song. A couple of licks in particular I almost have come to think of as the "Freebird" of jazz guitar. And as I've mentioned elsewhere, I don't like his articulation (he picks every note...there is no horn-like phrasing in his lines).
I'm not putting the guy down, he's a good player and I give him lots of credit (especially street cred since he plays blues
), but given the choice, I'd listen to Wes or Barney over Grant any day of the week.
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to each his own i guess. but Barney K's phrasing is easily comparable to GG's in the "picking every note" department. and he's def not shy of pulling out the blues licks either. just doesnt have the "cred" in my book.
maybe more harmonically inventive, but not as swinging either. at least on a GG record you might get to hear elvin or larry young. havent found many other guitar records like that, and im sure there were plenty of guitarists that would have liked to have the gig.
in my mind there are 3 categories of guitarists. technicians, groovers, and technicians with groove. BK would def be in the techy field with farlow, herb ellis, etc...nothing against them, but honestly i wont let myself listen to them more than once in a while because im afraid i might pick up a little more of a dotted eighth sixteenth than is recommended.
im sure on every sax forum they have the same kind of arguments about hank mobley, sam rivers, gene ammons...all great players. maybe not Trane or Bird. but at least you know its them.Last edited by mattymel; 08-01-2011 at 06:24 PM.
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I love Jim Raney's playing as well! To my ears, he has great tone, chops, and swings nicely.
Folks, if this forum (and others) has shown me one thing it's this: If and when I ever perform Jazz, I will never be able to please everyone.
This is because there will be so much variation in Jazz audiences that no matter how technical, how swinging, or how grooving I may get, many will be disappointed. Some will want more outside notes, others more altered chords, others may want more Jazz Blues, while still others may want more of a smooth Jazz repertoire, covering current hits.
A gig that covers all these sub-genres would be rather schizophrenic, don't you think? But, Do you try to please everyone, or do you just do what you do and end up like Grant Green, leaving many with some degree of disappointment?
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Excellent point. You will NEVER please everyone and trying to is futile and an excellent lesson to learn early on. I think the only way to develop which sub genre you fit in is to compose. Just write tunes and your improvisational/compositional style will come through. Bottom line is you have to play for you and be happy with you. Trying to please anyone should never be a part of your artistic growth. Originally Posted by AlsoRan
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It's a huge point...jazz is a big music...
Nobody walks around saying they like all "rock," for example...I think it's totally possible to be a jazz fan and not love all of it...it's okay to like what you like as long as you listen first.
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I heareth thee and will take thine wise words to heart.
AR
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Righteth oneth.
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One of the best bits of advice I've ever read on this forum. +100. Originally Posted by davekain
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Nice! Thanks Buddy Originally Posted by paynow
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It's funny hoew revealing that advice can be too...when I sit down to write in certain styles, ideas come easy...other styles I struggle, cliches come out, I plaigairize unknowingly...
Not saying that forcing yourself to write in an uncomfortable genre isn't a good creative exercise, but it's startling how sitting down with some 'script paper and a guitar (or whatever you write on) really calls "you" to the surface.
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I totally agree! Good thinking, Dave! Originally Posted by paynow
wiz
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Thanks guys. I didn't mean to get off topic but since we are here, I'll elaborate. Originally Posted by wizard3739
For me, I spent a long time trying to find my sound by playing through all these standards and finding new ways to play through them and I ultimately found myself just sounding like all my influences. I didn't find myself really developing into my own voice. So I started writing/composing.
You don't have to write some masterpiece. Just start by writing some changes you like. Not changes of a pre-existing song. Something YOU worked through. It doesn't have to be anything crazy. Just try to put something in there a little different. A deceptive cadence or a chord with an inversion like a D7/C or G/B. I find I really liked moving between sharp and flat keys. For example, the first four bars of one of my tunes starts like this.
3/4 Fmin7// D7/C// DbMaj7// BMaj7//
Anyway, start with some changes then try putting a little melody in there. Again, keep it simple. Don't get hung up on some crazy melody because ultimately, you are writing this to improvise over. Not to take away from the importance of an important melody. I'm just saying, if you are just starting composing, keep it simple. As you do it more and more, your melody writing will develop but you have to walk before you run.
I found this to be the best way to develop as an artist AND as an improviser. I hope this is helpful.
Also, I started writing because I really got sick of every Tom, Dick and Harry correcting me on what "they" thought were the correct changes to whatever standard was being played at the time. I figured, if I wrote the changes, NOBODY is gonna tell me the correct way of playing my own tune
Dave
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I have a friend in Yonkers who will tell you the changes are wrong, even if you wrote it: "That should be an E flat!!" even though you wrote it as G. You're close by; if you'd like I can introduce you two. He could use a good talking to. Originally Posted by davekain
Also, I started writing because I really got sick of every Tom, Dick and Harry correcting me on what "they" thought were the correct changes to whatever standard was being played at the time. I figured, if I wrote the changes, NOBODY is gonna tell me the correct way of playing my own tune
Dave
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