I hear Lester Young in a way that I've never heard before.

[brent.h]

Last year, I started a thread called 'The Language of Lester Young' (about pre-WWII Prez), and shared some of his 'licks'. I thought I'd share them because so many of them were so pretty. I thought I could steal some of his stuff the same way how many of us would learn and steal bebop licks from Bird, Barry Harris, Clifford Brown, et al. and be better for it.

Well, I've been trying to incorporate as much Prez into my playing for a year but inserting his melodic fragments here and there would sometimes feel weird because they're slightly disconnected from what I'm playing in the moment. It was never satisfying, and I was only using his lines 'superficially' without a true understanding of what makes him sound so damn good even with a basic triad or major 6th arpeggio or a do-re-mi-fa-sol style line.

I have listened to so much Prez that I kinda recognise some of his 'tricks', but when you're in the moment following his narrative, good God, do those familiar tricks seem so fresh all the time. You get the feel that he wasn't playing licks ever and everything was so spontaneous. Incidentally, the musicians who really understood that spontaneity were sax players from the Tristano school, Lee Konitz and Warne Marsh. Their playing has that same unpredictability that Prez had, if not more. How were they doing it? What did Prez do that was so different?

I don't claim to have a true understanding of Prez, but what I noticed in his playing, I finally understand why he was considered so radically different from trad jazz musicians like Louis Armstrong, Coleman Hawkins, and their contemporaries. (And no, I'm not going into Prez' tone because it has been covered to death everywhere on the internet.)

To my ears, a lot of the phrasing by trad musicians is done pretty 'neatly': 2 bar ideas. 4 bar ideas. There's huge emphasis on starting and/or ending phrases on the big beats 1 and 3. Improvisations and solos made so much reference to the melody. Prez could do all of the above because he was a New Orleans musician, too.

But the thing Prez really focused on was... asymmetry.

I've heard Louis Armstrong use asymmetry in playing in the Hot Fives and Sevens, but it was always to add a little spice to the solos. Playing across the bar lines? Check. Starting/Ending on different parts of the bar? Check. Displaced rhythms? Check. But quite often Satch would go back into the neat 2-bar, 4-bar phrases or thr big beats just to round things off nicely.

Prez seemed to have hyper-focused on this asymmetry that Louis Armstrong had in his playing. For Satch, asymmetry was spice. For Prez, it was the main ingredient.

Prez went hard against the grain. So many of his ideas spanned odd numbers of bars. His phrases started and ended on upbeats so frequently that they kinda leave you gasping for air. A favourite thing of Prez would be to displace and repeat rhythms to build so much rhythmic tension that the music would just get propelled forward. (And Prez did all of this without resorting to double-time playing or 16th notes. He almost never used them except for 'smears'.)

So, what was I doing wrong? Why wasn't Prez showing up in my playing?

I transcribed short 'licks' out of a larger rhythmic context. I didn't study the entirety of that long rhythmic phrase to see exactly what was going on. What's he doing? Whats the larger rhythmic idea? Where was he changing direction? Man, I'm telling you, if you really get into the weeds, you'd see Prez setting up the strangest sequences of eighth notes ever. Something like: a set of 6 consecutive descending notes, followed by another set of 5 descending notes, another set of 4... And the starting note of each set changes direction.. And because the combination of the number of notes is so strange, almost automatically you'll see Prez end on weird places in the bar.

So to get Prez' style, one must consider larger chunks of time/rhythm. How's that melodic fragment or sequence going to fit in this chunk? How are you displacing the rhythms? Do you have any weird-ass groupings of notes you'd like to try? Where are your notes changing directions? All these create asymmetry, unpredictability, tension, and extreme excitement in the music. Maybe I'm finally hearing what Bird, Dizzy, Marsh, Konitz, Tristano heard.

Now, combine that with Coleman Hawkins chord tone soloing and Charlie Christian's chromaticism... Bebop was ready to be birthed.

Charles McPherson said Prez was the first Bird. Barry Harris said he considered Prez a bebopper. Maybe the asymmetry is why.

[brent.h]

Plus, a lot has been said about how Prez got his sound and tone and storytelling from Frankie Trumbauer. Another saxophonist who's not mentioned enough and who influenced Prez' melodic playing and melodic devices was Bud Freeman.

[brent.h]

I'm re-visiting the very first solo I ever transcribed, Charlie Christian's Flying Home, with a new perspective. I'm looking at the bridge section. The bridge is usually where CC starts playing really wild stuff.

And what do you know... It's there. That Lester Young asymmetry. The influence is so obvious.

see 0:24

[Jimmy blue note]

I have really enjoyed these threads you've thoughtfully shared with us.
I'm always telling my students "Listen to Prez, and forget I told you to do so. Just let it infuse you." Glad these threads are in the forum.
Listening and deep listening is an acquired skill that is often the catalyst to the jump to the next level from thinking like an exercise to the music that creates your voice. Lester Young was so pure in his lyrical definition.
I really appreciate your commentary, brent.h

[brent.h]

thanks jim!

I can't get over Prez. He is simply the best. He balanced entertainment and art. He was swing and bebop. Not many players, even post-Bird, had that balance.

[PMB]

I bought the Lester Young Proper Box set of CDs when it came out around 25 years ago. A number of recordings like Lady Be Good and Lester Leaps In were already familiar to me. In fact, the first jazz footage I ever saw was Billie Holiday's rendition of Fine & Mellow with an incredible single-chorus solo by Prez.

However, the opening track on the set was Shoe Shine Boy and it blew my mind! So flexible yet grooving. Lester's first recording from 1936 with everything already in place. I immediately transcribed his solo and noted how it made everything else on the track sound like it came from a former age (I had a similar experience when first watching the Marx Brothers).

Here's the recording and my transcription (appearing at 0'45"):

Like Jim Hall's recording of My Funny Valentine with Bill Evans, Lester's solo seems so perfect that it's hard to believe that everything wasn't worked out beforehand. However, in both cases, the alternate takes, also incredible, prove otherwise.

Solo at 0'36":

[Kmatuhin]

Great topic, thanks! I think exploring Lester Young's style could be a worthy lifelong endeavor!

[brent.h]

Prez is the fountain.

Understanding him slightly better has made me hear things in CC's playing I never noticed. Plus, CC does a great job at translating Prez' intricate lines and rhythms into playable guitar language. Always a joy to check him out.

[brent.h]

I've finally written my first Prez and CC inspired line. This is inspired by Prez' asymmetrical playing and CC's rhythmic groupings in his solo on the bridge to Flying Home. This might not sound impressive, but it sounds like Lester Young to my ears.

It sounds simple on the surface because it's just the major scale and one small little chromatic note, and it's easy for the listener to follow. But underneath, there's that asymmetrical note groupings going on that lends to the unpredictability of the sound. This is the thing I've wanted in my playing for so long.

I've placed my accents on the start of every grouping of notes (and some other places too). Not sure if what I'm doing is right or if there's a formula or 'best practice' for this.

[tramline]

For me personally, I think I learned more about how to solo on swing standards from transcribing Lester's solos on the various takes of Dickie's Dream than anything else I've transcribed to date. Just that incredible rhythmic invention and all the different devices discussed in this thread on a dead simple form. Absolutely love every note and nuance of this solo.

[AllanAllen]

now that’s smoking!

[pamosmusic]

I've placed my accents on the start of every grouping of notes (and some other places too). Not sure if what I'm doing is right or if there's a formula or 'best practice' for this.

What's not to like? Sounds great!

I think "best practice" is whatever gets you playing like this, yeah?

[brent.h]

For me personally, I think I learned more about how to solo on swing standards from transcribing Lester's solos on the various takes of Dickie's Dream than anything else I've transcribed to date. Just that incredible rhythmic invention and all the different devices discussed in this thread on a dead simple form. Absolutely love every note and nuance of this solo.

I freaking love Dickie's Dream. I should transcribe this alternate version too.

Here's my short/half transcription of the master take for minor language. This is from last year:

[brent.h]

What's not to like? Sounds great!

I think "best practice" is whatever gets you playing like this, yeah?

Thanks Pete!

You don't know how much this comment means to me haha.

Plus, I was really inspired by one of your videos, the one where I asked about your articulation. Was inspired to 'get it right'.

[brent.h]

Hi again.

This another iteration of the line I wrote above. The difference is I tried to play through the changes a bit more instead of just the Bb major scale. To my ears, almost immediately, this sounded even closer to what CC and early beboppers might have played in the late 30s and early 40s.

[PMB]

Nice, the 2nd line sounds more convincing to me. The opening eight-note feels like an upbeat however it's accented so if you're looking for asymmetry, maybe try shifting the 1st alternating phrase back.

How about an enclosure to follow that would allow G7 or Gm7 (the latter being a more common change) on the turnaround? I like how the Gb passing tone is on' +' in the 2nd example. Non-harmonic tones do appear on the beat in Lester and CC but most often as part of a pivot or target note phrase.

I also hear a possible edit so that the line ends strongly on the 1st beat of the final bar:

[brent.h]

Nice, the 2nd line sounds more convincing to me. The opening eight-note feels like an upbeat however it's accented so if you're looking for asymmetry, maybe try shifting the 1st alternating phrase back.

How about an enclosure to follow that would allow G7 or Gm7 (the latter being a more common change) on the turnaround? I like how the Gb passing tone is on' +' in the 2nd example. Non-harmonic tones do appear on the beat in Lester and CC but most often as part of a pivot or target note phrase.

I also hear a possible edit so that the line ends strongly on the 1st beat of the final bar:

Yeah I like this cos it's guitar-friendly and parts of it are familiar to me cos I use it in my playing (3rds of G7 and C-7 landing on the big beat).

For the lines I wrote, I told myself that my constraints were going to be:

1. use CC's rhythms/groupings as is
2. use CC's contour as is

Was curious to see what would happen (important tones not landing on the big beats, etc)

[brent.h]

Ok, turns out this 'asymmetry' that my inarticulate self keeps referencing like it's the black magick of jazz improvisation has a precise, technical name: polymeter.

[Christian Miller]

Ok, turns out this 'asymmetry' that my inarticulate self keeps referencing like it's the black magick of jazz improvisation has a precise, technical name: polymeter.

Shake it off, shake it off, shake it off


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AllanAllen]

Fun concept, I went down in triads and ended with an enclosure lick from bars 4-5 of Ornithology.

[brent.h]

Fun concept, I went down in triads and ended with an enclosure lick from bars 4-5 of Ornithology.

Nice. The triads give that polymetric feel.

[AllanAllen]

Without knowing the term, I’ve been practicing melodic minor scale fingerings with a poly meter swing feel.

[brent.h]

Ok I finally got these to learn more about polymeter.

Essential Polymeter Studies In 4/4

The Jimmy Raney Book

[brent.h]

Need help. (see attached graphic)

I wrote a line thinking about 3 blocks of 5/8. Feels asymmetrical enough to me when I play it. I know that one of the important notes in the second bar, A natural, doesn't land on the big beat.

So, I adjusted the line. Now, the A natural falls on the beat 3, and is 'correct'. Looking at the blocks, there seems to more variety in phrase length, too. But for some reason, now the music feels symmetrical (and even predictable). Is this due the phrases having an even number of notes? Or is it something else?

[Christian Miller]

Yeah the 5s thing is actually much more present in swing era stuff then you might think. Django uses them in his solo on Sweet Sue for example…

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk