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Last edited by brent.h; 06-23-2026 at 12:16 PM.
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11-22-2025 09:46 AM
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I have really enjoyed these threads you've thoughtfully shared with us.
I'm always telling my students "Listen to Prez, and forget I told you to do so. Just let it infuse you." Glad these threads are in the forum.
Listening and deep listening is an acquired skill that is often the catalyst to the jump to the next level from thinking like an exercise to the music that creates your voice. Lester Young was so pure in his lyrical definition.
I really appreciate your commentary, brent.h
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I bought the Lester Young Proper Box set of CDs when it came out around 25 years ago. A number of recordings like Lady Be Good and Lester Leaps In were already familiar to me. In fact, the first jazz footage I ever saw was Billie Holiday's rendition of Fine & Mellow with an incredible single-chorus solo by Prez.
However, the opening track on the set was Shoe Shine Boy and it blew my mind! So flexible yet grooving. Lester's first recording from 1936 with everything already in place. I immediately transcribed his solo and noted how it made everything else on the track sound like it came from a former age (I had a similar experience when first watching the Marx Brothers).
Here's the recording and my transcription (appearing at 0'45"):
Like Jim Hall's recording of My Funny Valentine with Bill Evans, Lester's solo seems so perfect that it's hard to believe that everything wasn't worked out beforehand. However, in both cases, the alternate takes, also incredible, prove otherwise.
Solo at 0'36":
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Great topic, thanks! I think exploring Lester Young's style could be a worthy lifelong endeavor!
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For me personally, I think I learned more about how to solo on swing standards from transcribing Lester's solos on the various takes of Dickie's Dream than anything else I've transcribed to date. Just that incredible rhythmic invention and all the different devices discussed in this thread on a dead simple form. Absolutely love every note and nuance of this solo.
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now that’s smoking!
Originally Posted by brent.h
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What's not to like? Sounds great! Originally Posted by brent.h
I think "best practice" is whatever gets you playing like this, yeah?
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Nice, the 2nd line sounds more convincing to me. The opening eight-note feels like an upbeat however it's accented so if you're looking for asymmetry, maybe try shifting the 1st alternating phrase back.
How about an enclosure to follow that would allow G7 or Gm7 (the latter being a more common change) on the turnaround? I like how the Gb passing tone is on' +' in the 2nd example. Non-harmonic tones do appear on the beat in Lester and CC but most often as part of a pivot or target note phrase.
I also hear a possible edit so that the line ends strongly on the 1st beat of the final bar:
Last edited by PMB; 12-10-2025 at 12:35 AM.
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Shake it off, shake it off, shake it off Originally Posted by brent.h
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Fun concept, I went down in triads and ended with an enclosure lick from bars 4-5 of Ornithology.
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Without knowing the term, I’ve been practicing melodic minor scale fingerings with a poly meter swing feel.
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Yeah the 5s thing is actually much more present in swing era stuff then you might think. Django uses them in his solo on Sweet Sue for example…
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No, we don't do it that way. Originally Posted by brent.h
Count the beat on the hands. This is the Taala, which is roughly equivalent to the Western concept of metre or time signature.
For jazz, I use a half version of Adi Talam (which is eight count) that goes
1 clap
2 little finger against palm
3 third finger against palm
4 second finger against palm
Make each of these sharp and positive.
This is by far the most useful thing I picked up from Konnakol (so far). Not the spoken syllables (which can be modified).
The important thing is physicalise the counting of the beat so you don't lose your sense of the one and the physical relation of the spoken rhythm and the beat.
Once you've physicalised that, we go in 16th note subdivision
Takadimi takajono (piccadilly jinglebelly, what ever you like)
Lock the first syllable securely with the beat.
Now we use a grouping of three. We say
takida
To lock in with the beat we accent the syllable that goes with the beat
TA ki da ta KI da ta ki DA ta ki da TA
see how it phases?
then when are comfortable we accent the Ta, and then we ghost the other syllables.
The same for the 5
which he could do Ta di go na ton, Ta di go ta ton, or Ta ka Ta ki da, (University, Scientology or whatever suits best.)
When doing this on the guitar I speak the Taala. For 4/4, "ta ka di mi" is fine.
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What I like about the Konnakol way of doing it is that it clearly indicates what beat you are on. This is incredibly useful once you get into the odd time stuff. Originally Posted by brent.h
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Is this that crazy singing you did in the Footprints video?
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Maybe? No idea tbh. It’s been yonks. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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That long line at 1:00 - 1:12, great stuff, like falling up the stairs. Originally Posted by brent.h
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That's a perfect example of Hal Galper's 'Forward Motion' principle. Notice how the majority of high points in each phrase occur on the '+' of 1 with accents on the offbeats and slurring from weak to strong. In other words, lines resolve rather than begin on the primary beat. This is a hugely important point. We so often write phrases from the 1st beat for the sake of notational convenience but it doesn't reflect the way Lester Young and all the great bop musicians played. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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I have that book!
I noticed this, but differently. I was working on Blues for Alice and thought it was odd how it starts on 1, Parker usually starts on 2 or maybe a lead in on the & of 1.
I didn’t have any insight on it like you just explained. Thanks
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Yes, I find it best to learn or create Jazz phrases starting on the "+" of beats. Originally Posted by PMB
In my opinion, this is very, very, very important for Jazz phrasing.
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A lot of it is clave
Most bird is in 2-3 clave
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One Ka Di Mi
Two Ka Di Mi
is genius and kinda funny
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Yes, it's about where the line starts but more importantly where the phrase begins. That's the big takeaway from Galper's book. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
Galper cites Albert Schweitzer on Bach as a precursor to this way of phrasing in jazz: "If we follow the principle indicated by Bach's manner of writing his phrases, we see that he usually conceives four consecutive notes as grouped in such a way that the first is detached from the others by an imperceptible break and belongs rather to the previous group than to the one that follows". Thus, the "one' of the bar isn't the first but last beat of the bar.
The opening bars of the section beginning at 1'00" in the Jimmy Raney clip illustrate exactly what's expressed by this statement. Notice too that all the slurs and slides are from weak to strong beats (and that string changes occur on the '+' of 4 and not the 1):
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