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A long post from Carol's Facebook page.
BB's Hit Credits: BEACH BOYS CREDITS - PER UNION RECORDING CONTRACTS AND MY LOG ALSO: There's been so many emails about which of the BB's hits I played on, etc., that I've decided to post them here for general information. This is not just from my Log, or memory, but also verified by Musicians Union Contracts. Be aware that there were 13 total recording dates for "Good Vibrations", the first date (dates are 3-hour sessions in the studio) at Gold Star with Ray Pohlman on elec. bass was totally scrapped, and I did the other 12 dates on "Good Vibrations" for Brian at Western Studio 3. A copy of the re-use check I get for "Good Vibrations" is on the website.Studio musicians receive royalty checks on these tunes when re-used in movies according to the Union contracts - and while there's many kinds of paperwork, so-called "studio sheets" some erroneous book writers make up and "produce for evidence of what malarky they try to say, we get our re-use monies from the real thing.
BTW, Carl was the only BB who recorded on about 2-3 of these..... studio musicians who were doing all the 1,000s of record dates in the 1960s for all the well-known groups and artists at that time did these hits for the Beach Boys with Brian Wilson producing and bringing in his hand-written charts.....none of the Beach Boys were around at all, but a few times, they would drop by to listen to our track for a few minutes, and then leave after exchanging a joke with Hal Blaine. The guitar solos were done by either Glen Campbell or Billy Strange.
The BB's did about the first recording dates to start with before they brought in studio musicians, i.e., Hal Blaine is the only one of us playing on "Barbara Ann", and then I played guitar on "Surfin' USA" (that's Billy Strange on the solo guitar on that one), and bass on the following : Help Me Rhonda, Calif. Girls, The Little Girl I Once Knew, Please Let Me Wonder, I Get Around - all according to our Musicians Contracts. Ray Pohlman and Hal Blaine were used on the few record dates recorded later at Brian's home....they used a few studio musicians there also. I was so busy as #1 call on bass everywhere, I never recorded at Brian's home which were usually last-minute calls.
Pet Sounds ones I did, as listed on the Musicians Contracts, all recorded at Western Studio 3 - Sloop John B, God Only Knows, Wouldn't It Be Nice, Caroline No, Don't Talk Put Your Head On My Shoulder, I'm Waiting For The Day, Pet Sounds, Let's Go Away For Awhile, You Still Believe in Me, In My Room.
Ray Pohlman is on elec. bass on (not me): I Know There's An Answer - I Just Wasn't Made For These Times - Here Today.
I'm on Dano on "Please Let Me Wonder", that's Ray Pohlman on the Fender Bass on that one, cut at Western.
On "The Little Girl I Once Knew", that's Lyle Ritz on string bass, Barney Kessel on Dano, and myself on Fender Bass.
On Smile, all recorded at Western Studio 3, I played bass on: Good Vibrations, Heroes And Villains, Child Is The Father of The Man, Surf's Up, Cabinessence, Mrs. O'Leary's Cow - the Fire dates, Do You Like Worms, Vega-Tables, Wonderful, Can't Wait Too Long - many others but all those credits will be in my book to be completed soon. Am playing Dano bass guitar on "Please Let Me Wonder" (Ray Pohlman is on Fender bass on that). This is all according to Musician's contract records at the Union, and I do remember a lot of all the dates we did with Brian Wilson for the Beach Boys.
On Smile, all recorded at Western Studio 3, I played bass on: Good Vibrations, Heroes And Villains, Child Is The Father of The Man, Surf's Up, Cabinessence, Mrs. O'Leary's Cow - the Fire dates, Do You Like Worms, Vega-Tables, Wonderful, Can't Wait Too Long - many others but all those credits will be in my book to be completed soon. Am playing Dano bass guitar on "Please Let Me Wonder" (Ray Pohlman is on Fender bass on that). This is all according to Musician's contract records at the Union, and I do remember a lot of all the dates we did with Brian Wilson for the Beach Boys.
Carol Kaye please note: all vocals were overdubbed after we cut the band tracks.
PS. From a friend of mine: >>>>Carol, I own the 10 CD bootleg, Big Bag Of Vegetables, it's all the outtakes from the smile sessions, if you want copies, I'll send them to you. Yes, you can hear you speaking all over these cuts. Many times Brian speaks directly to you and wants you to explain to the others how to play certain parts, it's awesome to hear how it happened
About "Don't Worry Baby", I'm probably on that one as I did most of Brian's dates on bass after Ray Pohlman did a few initially, then Brian used me on bass and Ray filled in on a few when I would be previously booked for other people, Ray is on bass at Brian's house recordings.
BTW,that's EARL PALMER (most recorded studio drummer 1947 on through 2004) on "Please Let Me Wonder" Beach Boys hit.
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This wonderful message from a fan: >>>>>>>>I can't emphasize enough the high regard Brian Wilson spoke about you. It was a fifteen minute conversation back in 2005. If I remember right, he offered to call if anyone would make a $150 pledge to help victims of the Katrina disaster. He called me and asked if I had any questions I had for him, after he thanked me profusely for my gift. My first question was just blurted out of shock while I recovered that I recovered from getting a call from Brian; my second question was simply, 'how did you enjoy working with Carol Kaye?' -----and he couldn't stop about how wonderful you are! i couldn't get a word in edge-wise. He talked about how helpful you had been to him and your expertise, holding himself as a far second to your bass playing ability. He was a delight to listen to as he talked about you---I think he talked about 20 minutes.
Pic at his house circa 1998-99 he was on a roll, had just produced his daughters and friend on a record date using us on the date...for the first time since last seeing him late 1960s. He learned the computer stuff pretty well, I met his mother - very nice lady, not too well but you knew she was proud of her son! Met his new wife Melinda too, she had NO IDEA that Brian wrote all the music for our 60s dates.....I had dinner with them too after that, did some filming later at their nice hillside home.
Last edited by MarkRhodes; 06-15-2025 at 08:18 PM.
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06-15-2025 10:19 AM
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Your GF's been quite controversial lately with the R&RHOF snub. Maybe you should talk to her..
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OP is such a nice read
Thanks man
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I knew she hated that whole "Wrecking Crew" nonsense. Her autobiography is called "Studio Musician."
Originally Posted by sgcim
Your GF's been quite controversial lately with the R&RHOF snub. Maybe you should talk to her..
Carol finds it easier to say "No!" than most people I know.
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Nice post.
I really wonder if it would not have been more fun to have been a session musician with the Wrecking Crew BITD, vs struggling as a solo artist.
Brian Wilson is a fascinating case. When The Beach Boys were at their height, a lot of bands like the Byrds and Monkees were trying to do their own thing—record their own band, not use session musicians.
However, Brian got the genius idea of using the session guys for his own personal vision, and basically sidelining his own band. Apparently for many dates The Beach Boys guys would just show up, shoot the s*** with the sessions guys, possibly sing some backing vocals, and go off and surf or whatever they were doing in those days.
The direction that Brian was going in, there was just no way 4 or 5 guys were going to do it. Brian had to be the most creatively diverse guy in pop music at the time.
Well, maybe next to Frank Zappa. But Zappa wasn’t selling enough records to pay for the orchestra and session guys, so had to “settle” for a real band for the most part.
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A couple of interesting things for me:
Brian Wilson worked on most of Smile at nearly the exact same time The Beatles were working on Sgt. Pepper. Brian said that refused to release what he had for Smile because it was too advanced, whatever that meant. I don’t think he would have had any idea what The Beatles were doing at the time, and we know that Sgt. Pepper really moved the ball down the court further than it had been moved previously, at least for Beatle fans. It would have been interesting to have Smile out at the same time, but Brian was very conscious of The Beatles as competition and I don’t think Smile would have had the same impact as Sgt. Pepper. But I will say that Smile was pretty avant garde for pop music.
Brian Wilson was also deaf in his right ear from birth, or so he said. It makes me wonder if that disability was a factor in him pushing the envelope for all of the sounds and creativity he had. Could also be part of the reason why people like Carol Kaye were called into the studio so many times to cut a single song.
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Ha, Carol played 12-string guitar on "Freak Out!" Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
Shelly Manne and Tommy Tedesco played on "Lumpy Gravy."
Johnny "Guitar" Watson was great on "One Size Fits All."
His bands were a revolving cast of exemplary musicians, many of whom went on to other groups, solo success, and session work (Steve Vai, George Duke, it is a very long list.) Frank went his own way but he was not a poor kid---he had his own recording studio when this was not a common thing. God bless Frank----glad he walked among us for the time he did---but he had a lot of help from pro players.
Backing up, studio musicians made most records, not just pop songs in LA. The Muscle Shoals rhythm section, the Funk Bros, Booker T & The MGs (-Stax / Volt records), and Nashville is its own story. (Dylan raved about Charlie Daniels when Charlie recorded with him on Nashville Skyline and Self Portrait.)
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Yeah, "for the most part." I was aware of Tommy Tedesco, but didn't know Carol Kaye played with him. Dr. John and Paul Butterfield also participated in the Freak Out sessions. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
Ha, Carol played 12-string guitar on "Freak Out!"
Shelly Manne and Tommy Tedesco played on "Lumpy Gravy."
Johnny "Guitar" Watson was great on "One Size Fits All."
His bands were a revolving cast of exemplary musicians, many of whom went on to other groups, solo success, and session work (Steve Vai, George Duke, it is a very long list.) Frank went his own way but he was not a poor kid---he had his own recording studio when this was not a common thing. God bless Frank----glad he walked among us for the time he did---but he had a lot of help from pro players.
Backing up, studio musicians made most records, not just pop songs in LA. The Muscle Shoals rhythm section, the Funk Bros, Booker T & The MGs (-Stax / Volt records), and Nashville is its own story. (Dylan raved about Charlie Daniels when Charlie recorded with him on Nashville Skyline and Self Portrait.)
Yes he had his own studio and was undoubtedly influenced by the Beach Boys exploration of the studio as a compositional tool, though Freak Out came out only a month or 2 after Pet Sounds. I read that Verve threw a huge amount of money at Zappa for Freak Out, so they could do a lot of stuff that other bands couldn't do.
However, Zappa's vision was growing too big for his ability to finance some of his later projects with orchestras and so forth. (In any event, he complained about the lack of dedication to his material on some of his orchestral pieces.)
Whereas Brian Wilson went almost exclusively to studio musicians for recording, Zappa stuck with a core band and continued to find great musicians to fill it. Johnny Watson is on several Zappa albums, which is one of the more interesting pairings in rock music. Zappa idolized Watson, along with a select few other blues musicians.
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Frank Zappa had a band. He toured.
In one interview, Brian Wilson said he had flown to Michigan to see a Beach Boys concert.
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Paul McCartney is supposedly chomping celery on the song "Vegetables" which is on Smile. He was visiting LA during a break in Sgt. Pepper and dropped in to Brian at the studio. Paul and Brian had something of a real friendship that lasted over the years. Originally Posted by lammie200
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In the midst of all this thickening bad blood, there was one final improbable triumph: “Good Vibrations”, a record that in length, style, subject, and mood changed the way producers and musicians viewed the record-making craft. It soared to the top of the charts in the late fall of ‘66, and became the Beach Boys’ first million-selling single. With the promise of Smile on the horizon, The Beach Boys, if you read the rock press of the day, and as incredible as it may seem today, were creatively hurtling past the Beatles. Brian just needed some time and space. He didn’t get it.
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Just when it seemed that the group and the label had reached an accommodation, two events made all the squabbling irrelevant. In May of 1967, Brian put Smile aside. And then on June 1, the Beatles released Sgt. Pepper’s..., usurping the artistic and technological claims that Smile mythologists had assumed would accrue to Brian and the Beach Boys. The production race was over.
David Leaf, The Beach Boys: the Capitol Years
In Back to the beach : a Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys reader,
edited by Kingsley Abbott.
London : Helter Skelter Publishing, c1997, p46.
Wilson abandoned Smile after the success of Good Vibrations, but before Sgt. Pepper's was released. The production of Good Vibrations had taken ninety hours of tape to make three minutes and thirty-five seconds of music. He could not have finished Smile by Christmas, let alone in time to challenge the Beatles.
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Lovely thread.
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A percussionist I used to play with toured with FZ. He said it was a horrible experience. Originally Posted by Litterick
He said he was the cheapest POS he ever worked for.
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”Cheapnis…” Originally Posted by sgcim
Zappa’s frugality was born out of necessity, since he didn’t have megabucks to throw around. He lost money on many tours, and pretty much every time he brought in a large ensemble for recording.
His toughness on musicians was well known. It wasn’t for the faint of heart. There were always other bands out there looking for musicians.
His 3-word response to musicians who didn’t like the working conditions: “Window or aisle?”
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Continuing with the Zappa digression on the Brian Wilson thread: My impression is that 80% of his musicians over the years enjoyed it, some truly idolized Frank and think he changed their lives (and careers).
About 20% got fed up with Frank or actively disliked him. Probably not a bad percentage for a genius who was doing things no one else was doing.
Look up Adrian Belew’s experience with Zappa. Zappa certainly kick-started his career—got him out of 2nd tier bands in Nashville. When Belew left Zappa for Bowie, Zappa was as mean and sarcastic to Belew as one could possibly be.
For years Belew held a grudge against Zappa (and against Robert Fripp, if you’re familiar with that saga). But then they reconciled, and Belew corresponded and visited Zappa frequently when Zappa was ailing. Reading Belew’s account of his relationship with Zappa brought tears to my eyes. Really.
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I think I posted above that Brian invited Paul and John to a listening party for Pet Sounds upon its release. Originally Posted by Litterick
I am not a Brian fanatic and knowledgeable about his entire medical history, but if you listen to Smiley Smile or the Smile Sessions it’s obvious here was a genius (with an unlimited budget—unlike Zappa…) who was cracking up in real time. Genius is never far from madness, but in this case it tipped over.
”The genius album they never made” is probably the most damning thing that can be said about an artist. A LOT of them out there…
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"The genius album they never made” is probably the most damning thing that can be said about an artist. A LOT of them out there…"
Are you saying "Smile" is not worth getting. I didn't like the little I heard of it.
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The Wikipedia page about Smile is instructive. For example:
Carl recalled that completing the album would have required considerable "willingness and perseverance to corral all of us", as everyone "was so loaded on pot and hash all of the time that it's no wonder the project didn't get done." Love acknowledged his own marijuana and alcohol use during the sessions but maintained that his work, along with Dennis and Carl's, remained unaffected. Dennis, who also used LSD, remembered that the group grew "very paranoid" about losing their audience, adding that while drugs significantly influenced their evolution, they also fostered a fear that the public "would no longer understand us, musically." Brian told an interviewer in 1976: "We were too fucking high, you know, to complete the stuff. We were stoned! You know, stoned on hash 'n' shit!" Jardine, who did not use drugs, compared his position to "being trapped in an insane asylum", citing an incident during a "Heroes and Villains" session when Brian instructed the band to crawl around the studio and mimic pig-snorting noises.
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The cool thing about Brian is that in 2004 he finished off the music, rerecorded it all, and took it out on tour with a full band. Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
It meant a lot to me personally, because it was came out a strange time for me. The new version came out three weeks after my mom died, and it was a jewel in an otherwise pretty crummy time in my life. A couple months later I got to see him play it at the Warner Theater in DC. It gave me much needed lift. I already had a bootleg of the 60's Smile that I listened to over and over and knew inside and out, and here it was complete. Thank you Brian.
Yeah, I love Smile. It's not insane; it's Brian's ode to America. Sure, it gets out there, but I take the Brian-going-crazy stories with a grain of salt. Rock history usually puts the mythological spin on everything, and the actual story is more mundane. The rest of the Beach Boys just pulled the plug on Smile as a project, and Brian was too sensitive to push back.
Good Vibrations was made by editing together multiple versions. I think Smile was going to be an album length version of that approach. The bootleg is made up of the fragments, but they're not edited together. "Heroes and Villians," "Surfs Up," and "Cabinessence" are all this way, and they all came out individually on later Beach Boys albums, where they were often the strongest tracks.
The 2004 version is most excellent. At first I actually thought the new version was made by just polishing off the 60s tapes. But it's a completely new recording. The music and the vocals are almost exactly the same arrangements. A guy by the name of Darian Sahanaja was the bandleader/arranger/instigator, so he probably went back to the original tapes and figured out the parts. Or Brian had it written down.
When I saw the concert it was the same band as on the recording, and it was cool just how much they were into it. They were fully committed to all the strange backup vocals. They chomped on vegetables, imitated barnyard animals, and then did thick five part harmonies. Before they played Smile, the singers (including Brian) came out and did a 45 minute acapella warmup, mostly of old Beach Boys tunes.
Brian himself was pretty awkward on stage. Everyone knows his struggles with mental illness. He didn't say much, but the rest of the band totally loved him, and he sang and played well. It was probably the gig of a lifetime to play that music, especially if you were already a huge fan. The bootleg had been out there for years, so it wasn't like Smile was completely unknown. It really was this secret masterpiece for those in the know, and it's great that it finally was finished, albeit almost 40 years later.
Would it have been as big as Sgt. Pepper? Probably not. The Beatles were at the zeitgeist in 1967. It fits in nicely with the other "concept" albums from 1967, like "Forever Changes" by Love and "Village Green Preservation Society" by the Kinks.
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I've read that Jerry Garcia (Grateful Dead) loved Smile (-the version available to him) and that he gave copies to friends. I had not pegged him as a Beach Boys fan. ;o)
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Had no idea! I'd like to hear some of that. I listen to the Grateful Dead station on Sirius XM radio when I'm driving my wife's car. I enjoy it. They were never my favorite band, but I've gone through a few periods where I listened to them more than to any other rock band. "Clank your chains and count your change, and try to walk the line." Originally Posted by HiFi Mule2Ride
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Originally Posted by sgcim
I just meant that usually when an artist(s) can't finish a hyped product, it's a sign of something--severe mental illness, addiction, major dysfunction in the band, etc.
Look at Guns'n'Roses' Chinese Democracy...Sly Stone's promised comeback album...probably a lot more I can't think of right now.
Do I like it? Well, I like parts of it a lot. It's interesting, that's for sure.
Worth listening to for artistic and historic reasons. It's not an album I'd put on all the time, unlike Pet Sounds.
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