Matteo Mancuso burns

[AndyV]

https://www.facebook.com/reel/2297915237214956

[wolflen]

what can you say about this guy..

in his other vids he does the same with classical blues rock fusion and "jazz"

I hope producers dont add strings on his albums..

[AKA]

Saw him perform in a small club earlier this year. Absolutely amazing!

[GuyBoden]

Fantastic, what a talent. He's fast yes, but also very musical.

[James W]

I recently bought his album The Journey. It's very nice, though it would be even nicer to hear him stretch out a bit more and perhaps take some risks or get looser... monster player though. Virtuoso.

[Oscar67]

He’s amazing. Not just unbelievable technique but great musicianship too (even though his music isn’t really my thing).

The bar is being raised continually. Like Clapton on the Beano album, or Hendrix, or EvH’s tapping, or Malmsteen’s hyperspeed neoclassical, or doing percussion on a flat-top, etc, this will quickly become the new normal.

[jameslovestal]

I recently bought his album The Journey. It's very nice, though it would be even nicer to hear him stretch out a bit more and perhaps take some risks or get looser... monster player though. Virtuoso.

Don't know how to interpret what you're saying here. Maybe it relates to an age difference?

The guys like me in our 60s, that I know, tend to say they wish he was more grounded and played more lyrical (and that as he ages, we are sure he will get there). But we are not asking that he play 50s style swing like Raney\Farlow, etc. or in the mode of Green\Wes\Burrell.

I love his individuality!

[pamosmusic]

Don't know how to interpret what you're saying here. Maybe it relates to an age difference?

The guys like me in our 60s, that I know, tend to say they wish he was more grounded and played more lyrical (and that as he ages, we are sure he will get there). But we are not asking that he play 50s style swing like Raney\Farlow, etc. or in the mode of Green\Wes\Burrell.

I love his individuality!

Kind of like when you hear Coltrane or Holdsworth or even Bird play … even though they had absolutely bananas technique, you can still hear them miss. Like it still sounds like their ear is outpacing their chops. Which is exciting … and sounds like real improvisation. You can be clean and be improvising but when every single note is placed flawlessly you start to wonder if there’s much experimentation going on.

[jameslovestal]

Kind of like when you hear Coltrane or Holdsworth or even Bird play … even though they had absolutely bananas technique, you can still hear them miss. Like it still sounds like their ear is outpacing their chops. Which is exciting … and sounds like real improvisation. You can be clean and be improvising but when every single note is placed flawlessly you start to wonder if there’s much experimentation going on.

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks

[James W]

Kind of like when you hear Coltrane or Holdsworth or even Bird play … even though they had absolutely bananas technique, you can still hear them miss. Like it still sounds like their ear is outpacing their chops. Which is exciting … and sounds like real improvisation. You can be clean and be improvising but when every single note is placed flawlessly you start to wonder if there’s much experimentation going on.

Exactly! I was listening to Matteo's album again today and it does sound better than the first time, which is a good sign. And maybe it's a bit unfair to compare him to people like Coltrane or Holdsworth, but then again his technique is in the stratosphere so... But you're right, it could sound a bit edgier expressively and off-the-cuff. Like pre- to early Mahavishnu John McLaughlin, for example (perhaps another unfair comparison).

[Bobby Timmons]

Yes, it shows in the lack of dynamics in his playing, an inability to go from a whisper to a shout in a phrase, and very little rhythmic variation, almost entirely straight eighth/sixteenth notes. No breathing, which is why it sounds robotic. To be fair, most non-classical guitarists lack dynamic expression, but it's especially true of the shredders.

That's really bad sir. Where is your head at where you think a musician at master level has the 'inability to use dynamic or rhythmic variation'? He's deliberately playing even rhythmically and dynamically for a tight effect. You think he lacks that ability like he's an inferior musician in that regard? Lol! Most music doesn't display every ideal fundamental characteristic. That's like if you said Johnny Cash sux because his music doesn't have BH harmony in it.. Most non-classical guitarists lack dynamic expression? That's really bad.

[James W]

Yes, it shows in the lack of dynamics in his playing, an inability to go from a whisper to a shout in a phrase, and very little rhythmic variation, almost entirely straight eighth/sixteenth notes. No breathing, which is why it sounds robotic. To be fair, most non-classical guitarists lack dynamic expression, but it's especially true of the shredders.

I recall the first lesson I had with Dave Creamer, in which he scolded me for the lack of dynamics in my playing and gave me exercises to develop it.

I would have to question on the basis of this post, just how much you have heard Mancuso play? 'Almost entirely straight eighth/sixteenth notes' is completely false. The truth is that he can swing like a mofo if he so chooses. It's funny that you mention non-classical guitarists. Are you aware of Mancuso's background, his technique etc. ?

[wolflen]

Lets put his age in the mix..he is still learning..!

I think in time he will tame down the speed in favor of taste..think Carlton.

While his speed is his strength .. I was waiting for more in his backing of the bass player when he took solos.

I would have done more of a "Bill Evans" fills more melodic partial chord backing..but I have a few years on the kid.

and who knows where music/jazz/rock/electric/computer aided and even newer tech will help music in general evolve

I may not be around to see Mancuso mellow out so to speak..but I enjoy watching him now

[Mick-7]

I would have to question on the basis of this post, just how much you have heard Mancuso play? 'Almost entirely straight eighth/sixteenth notes' is completely false. The truth is that he can swing like a mofo if he so chooses. It's funny that you mention non-classical guitarists. Are you aware of Mancuso's background, his technique etc.?

You're right, I haven't heard a lot of his playing so my opinion may be misinformed. But feel free to post an example of him playing something with thematic development and lyrical space. I've only heard what I'd call stream of thought/sound playing, which can get old fast - it does for me anyway.

[ccroft]

Well... he must be getting better. When somebody posted his tube playing Donna Lee it took about 20mins for people to start jumping all over him. Seven years later it took 2 days! And not nearly as harsh.

Mick: listen to the clip Bobby posted with Hellborg around 10:20 or something. There's restraint and sensitivity. I mean, yeah, maybe he could show more, but I've heard a lot of players cream Caravan with tempo and shredding. Like everyone does with Cherokee or DLee on almost every instrument. And why not? If you can do it it's fun.

I think he's growing. He's only 27 years old. Not a usually a time of life for restraint :)

[AllanAllen]

Some of us also learned it’s not cool to put extraterrestrial talent down due to personal taste.

[pamosmusic]

Yes, it shows in the lack of dynamics in his playing, an inability to go from a whisper to a shout in a phrase, and very little rhythmic variation, almost entirely straight eighth/sixteenth notes. No breathing, which is why it sounds robotic. To be fair, most non-classical guitarists lack dynamic expression, but it's especially true of the shredders.

Just since you posted this as an agreement with what I said, I should note that I disagree with almost every word of this.

[pamosmusic]

Jonathan Kreisberg is someone who is incredibly dynamic and expressive but I get an Every-Note-In-Its-Right-Place vibe from. It's almost not worth saying. I only said it because it's just an aesthetic thing I notice sometimes and it seems James does too.

Now ask me how many times I've seen Jonathan Kreisberg live.

[James W]

You're right, I haven't heard a lot of his playing so my opinion may be misinformed. But feel free to post an example of him playing something with thematic development and lyrical space. I've only heard what I'd call stream of thought/sound playing, which can get old fast - it does for me anyway.

I can imagine people saying the same thing about Coltrane's playing c. 1957-58, particularly if they hadn't even bothered to check him out properly and dismissed him on the basis of who knows what.

If you had bothered to check Mancuso's stuff out before judging him, you might have come across this piece, which as I stated on the What Are You Listening To thread, is one of my favourites on the album.

[Mick-7]

I can imagine people saying the same thing about Coltrane's playing c. 1957-58, particularly if they hadn't even bothered to check him out properly and dismissed him on the basis of who knows what.

I think you mean 1960 and later (Giant Steps, etc.), in '57-'58 he was playing ballads, e.g., I think his album Lush Life from '58 is strictly ballads.

If you had bothered to check Mancuso's stuff out before judging him, you might have come across this piece, which as I stated on the What Are You Listening To thread, is one of my favorites on the album.

I'll admit it was ignorant of me to opine about a musician whose musical output I am not real familiar with, consider it my dumb comment of the day. This piece is nice and certainly displays dynamic range, however, he does go back into shredding mode in his solo, it seems to be habitual for him.

Like I said, I like to hear melodic development, pacing and space in the phrasing, and I haven't heard that in his solos, just non-stop playing. Could you hum any phrase from one of his solos after hearing the recording once or twice? That's a good test for lyricism, I have not heard him pass it.

That's really bad sir. Where is your head at where you think a musician at master level has the 'inability to use dynamic or rhythmic variation'?

"inability" was a poor word choice, what I was meant to say is that in his solos I've heard he never stops playing, it's go, go, go.

[starjasmine]

Now ask me how many times I've seen Jonathan Kreisberg live.

OK, how many times?

I've seen him live in a small club and attended one of his masterclasses. Both were great experiences, musically and educationally. The club was REALLY small, maybe seats 50, so I got there an hour before the doors opened (about 3 hrs before showtime) to get a good seat (it was first-come-first-served.) I was surprised that there wasn't a line out the door... the band was doing a soundcheck and they let me in to listen. I got a front row seat :-) and loved every minute of the show.

JK was slightly apprehensive about letting a member of the public into soundcheck... he joked to me that he didn't want me taking video and posting it to YT with snarky comments like "Here's Kreisberg hitting clams!" :-)

My own take on his approach is that it is highly improvisational and that he takes risks, but that he also has super strong technical abilities, musicianship, ears, and a deep baked-in vocabulary on which to base said improv.

Back on topic, I'm a rabid Matteo fan. Never seen him live. I think I have to get to NAMM next year just for that.

[James W]

I think you mean 1960 and later (Giant Steps, etc.), in '57-'58 he was playing ballads, e.g., I think his album Lush Life from '58 is strictly ballads.

It's funny you should say this. If you look up the term 'sheets of sound' in the index of Lewis Porter's Coltrane biography there is an entry saying 'left behind about 1960'. If you must know, the term 'sheets of sound' was first used by Ira Gitler in his notes for the 1958 album Soultrane.

I'll admit it was ignorant of me to opine about a musician whose musical output I am not real familiar with, consider it my dumb comment of the day. This piece is nice and certainly displays dynamic range, however, he does go back into shredding mode in his solo, it seems to be habitual for him.

Like I said, I like to hear melodic development, pacing and space in the phrasing, and I haven't heard that in his solos, just non-stop playing. Could you hum any phrase from one of his solos after hearing the recording once or twice? That's a good test for lyricism, I have not heard him pass it.

I have to say, that's a silly test, to put it mildly. Listen to Coltrane from 1958. He's double timing at around 300BPM and people are still dismissing Mancuso for shredding?

[Mick-7]

It's funny you should say this. If you look up the term 'sheets of sound' in the index of Lewis Porter's Coltrane biography there is an entry saying 'left behind about 1960'. If you must know, the term 'sheets of sound' was first used by Ira Gitler in his notes for the 1958 album Soultrane.

Trane certainly didn't leave it behind in 1960, it was prominent in his later albums.

I have to say, that's a silly test, to put it mildly. Listen to Coltrane from 1958. He's double timing at around 300BPM and people are still dismissing Mancuso for shredding?

The "test" I mentioned was for lyricism, which Coltrane often achieved in his solos, as on Lush Life. Of course he could "shred" too but that's not all he did. Please share a lyrical solo by Mancuso, like I said, I haven't heard one.

[James W]

Trane certainly didn't leave it behind in 1960, it was prominent in his later albums.

It returned more prominently in his last few albums, yes. But it is still accurate to say his style changed from around 1960 away from the blazing fast lines (though still often fast from a guitaristic point of view).

The "test" I mentioned was for lyricism, which Coltrane often achieved in his solos, as on Lush Life. Of course he could "shred" too but that's not all he did. Please share a lyrical solo by Mancuso, like I said, I haven't heard one.

I already told you I reject your test. And you seem to be using the term 'shred' in relation to Mancuso's playing in a wholly pejorative sense. I think the tune I already shared is lyrical, but I think what you call lyricism is not the be-all and end-all of music. There is much more to appreciate in music other than just lyricism. Anyway I will give Mancuso's album another listen later and get back to you, because quite clearly you can't be arsed to listen to it.

[Groyniad]

He's not improvising here, he's just robotically playing Benson's solo.

surely we're allowed to say this!

it's one thing to speak freely on a difficult topic and quite another to read something you composed previously (with no um's and consistent pace) etc.

the first sort of talking tends to come across very differently than the second.

the whole art of acting is to do with learning how to make learned lines come out sounding 'real' and spontaneous

I think the tendency of guitarists to be super-impressed with this sort of thing has to do with their habit of according the highest value to 'chops' or speed etc.

coltrane doubling up at 300 is a kind of crazy circus-trick - but my deep love of jazz doesn't lead me to listen to it twice. holdsworth makes me want to scream and make reactionary-sounding claims about real music. (I've hardly listened to him at all)

this guy's time feels is impressive - but only because it is unerring and the tempo is super bright.

bird plays very fast on ballads - but oh boy, that is not an end in itself but a means to generate e.g rhythmical variety and bite - which get lost very very quickly if you play banks of 8ths/16ths.

so it's all about what people do with the chops they've developed - not just with how choppy the chops are