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Not Jazz but -
is anyone else also totally crap at what i'd (probably incorrectly) call traditional strumming? basically not really comping - perhaps playing open chords or barres like a folk or pop singer might accompany themselves with
I hardly ever do it nowadays (probably years will go by until i'll try it again) but I had a little bash at playing a drifters tune last night and was terrified at how crap i sounded!
it something I worked on as a beginner, and then since playing jazz I havent really approached. not sure if i have got worse in abscence, or just my ears now realise how rough and ready it sounds
Guitar set up probs didn't help but found it quite funny that its a bit of a staple guitar technique and i never use it.
am I alone? should i care?
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05-24-2018 09:07 AM
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No, but I'm positive I'd be in the same boat as you if I didn't teach guitar lessons, because I'd just never really do it!
Teaching has actually been great for keeping some of my less used technique aspects a bit sharper...because if I don't use it--I lose it!
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I don't know if I'm a good strummer...I know I'm no Joe Strummer...but I play uke a fair amount, which is great for singalongs. Using the fingers for strumming really helps, on guitar or uke.
My advice is get a cheap uke (they're so cheap, it's unbelievable) and a big book of songs like one of these and sing and strum til your fingers are sore:
The Daily Ukulele Songbook
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A common problem. I knew a guy who had it bad and to make it worse all he did was strum. He wasn't a jazz comper or lead player etc just a folky. When he did strum (cowboy chords) he would never play the high E string and let it ring. It was some kind of psychological head trip fear of music thing. I suggested that he practice on an electric playing along with recordings, fairly loud, and turn the guitar volume way down and strum away without a care. I never followed up with him so don't know how it worked out. Another way might be to get a ukulele. They're all about strumming and are less intimidating than a guitar.
Check out rhythm player John Wilkinson, on the right with the 335, for a person that could strum.
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Can't see it. The guy on the right on acoustic is just going up and down.
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I think you should worry, yes. Strumming is a basic skill everyone need to master before moving to more complex things. At least that's my teaching philosophy and that's how I teach beginners.
I always say think like a drummer, in strumming it's where you can apply this concept.
Im not a big fan of folky style, it's a bit boring, even though I can do it no problem if needed..
But my go to non jazz strummers are Pete Townsend, the Green Day guy, Johnny Ramone, Malcolm Young, any black player in any funk and RnB band.
to me, if you can't strum your way through a rocknroll or pop tune, I don't buy your jazz either. Don't mean the OP particularly, just in general.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Also Keith Richards and the Reggae players. imo the Caribbean Soca/Calypso players are some of the best. It's a very hard style to master and incredibly demanding on the left hand because even though it's mostly just vamps with triads (not many 7ths) on the top strings the hand is constantly engaged with pressure on the strings. Not a moments rest. The rhythm guitar has sort of taken over the chimey role of the steel drums in more traditional Calypso. Steel drums aren't used much in Soca except occasionally for a little color. Reggae's easy compared to it. I've seen Black American funk guitarists not be able to make it at all and the White guys don't even know where to start. A very specialized skill but if nothing else great for developing a loose picking hand.
It's a rare non Jazz guitarist that can't strum. BB King and Santana are notable exceptions.
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Drifters aren't really "strumming" music usually. 12/8 or Latin feels usually?
What tune was it?
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Originally Posted by mrcee
It's a rare non Jazz guitarist that can't strum
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Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
Yeah Buddy! It is worrying that lots of jazz guitarists don't have basic rhythm guitar skills together. But if you don't need them you don't need them.
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Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
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Originally Posted by mrcee
I think any pro jazz guitarist can do strum just fine, I can't imagine otherwise. But if it's true, and basic rhythm guitar is not pre requisite to play jazz today, that education sucks! That's how you learn subdividing the beat in simple 8ths, syncopation, and whatnot, how can you skip it?
And what about 'comping'? It's just more evolved form of rhythm playing, you can't just go straight to that, right? You can't run before know how to walk, a common sense? lol, I'm just puzzled!
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Jazz guitar started with strumming, pounding out the beat, then with the advent of bebop and more modern styles it became less prevalent.
If you don't strum, you're missing out on an important function of the guitar as a rhythm instrument. And you gotta strum if you're gonna get funky!
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I repeat, let's hear the OP, if he doesn't mind. It'll save an awful lot of time.
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Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
Soca guitar is fascinating and really difficult. I'm not an expert on West African music but I hear some similarities. Maybe Zydeco to but I'm not sure. Although I've seen videos of Zydeco bands and the guitar players sometimes seem like they're just along for the ride. The reggae styles can be tricky but imo are a lot easier to do at least a passable job on. A variation has been common in RnB and Country in the 50s. A different accent but still the same basic scratch on 2 and 4. Lots of non Caribbean guitarists do a fine job on the Reggae and related styles but I've never heard one who could really make the Soca. I'm only fair at it but I lived in the Caribbean for a while. Unlike reggae, ska etc where the scratch is on 2 and 4 (assuming 4/4 time) it seems to me that in Soca the guitar is strumming fairly evenly accented 1/4 notes (down strums) or maybe 1/8th notes on the downbeats with some jangly chippy chop stuff in between each 1/4 note on the up strums. So the right hand has got to be really loose. It's stressful on the left hand because unlike the usual 2 and 4 scratches in reggae and other music the fretting hand is always engaged and never gets a rest.
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ha funny this thread of mine got a big response (by my standards!) when it was slightly light hearted but some great replies
This was the tune in particular, a bit more complex than 'folk strumming' but I actually moved from this to thinking "damn i cant strum" and then revisted the basics.
( I actually dont know what rhythm that is if anyone would enlighten me to work on it? )
I might record something if i get time. I do understand the basics of subdividing the beat in simple 8ths, syncopation
any other good strummers out there to check out?
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The guitarist on that date could actually have been Barry Galbraith. He along with Milt Hinton on bass and
Osie Johnson on drums were the go to rhythm section on tons of 50s RnB recorded in NYC including the Drifters. Possibly Hank Jones on piano. The rhythm on that tune may have been the baion rhythm. Milt Hinton mentioned it in his autobiography as being a common one they used.
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Thumb-strumming is inherently more inaccurate than strumming with a flat-pick. Using either method, though, you'll want to use a metronome when you practice. And you'll want to practice a lot.
Many guitarists focus on fret-hand development at the expense of pick-hand development. I consider that a big mistake, because whether it's single-notes or chords, the two need to be precisely meshed to avoid the mush.
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Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus
Strangely, I've never used a metronome. I don't own one and I've never lost rhythm yet when playing with others. So maybe it depends on the person.
Obviously both hands need to coordinate but it's the pick hand that makes the music. Well, brain and heart first :-)
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Inspiration from master strummer Jorge Glem
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Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus
(Sitting here hunched over a computer is not ideal)
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Originally Posted by basinstreet
Tapping this should make it clear. The strong beats are the 1's. All the beats are just steady 4/4. It's the emphasis on the 1's that give it the rhythm. There's no need to 'bounce' the rhythm to produce the effect.
Incidentally, if you're playing with a band the bass just hits the 1 and 3. Makes a nice juxtaposition against the latin beat:
1 2 3, 1 2 3, 1 2 - 1 2 3, 1 2 3, 1 2 etc.
Folk fingerstyle is like this on a C chord:
T/5 i/2 m/1 T/4 i/2 m/1 T/3 i/2 m/1
The tune that comes immediately to mind (from long ago!) is All My Trials which is usually done in this rhythm. They repeat the bass twice for some reason.
Here's another one a bit quicker:
Last edited by ragman1; 05-26-2018 at 06:52 AM.
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really fascinating replies thanks all
at work at the minute so will digest them properly later - haven't so much as seen a guitar since starting the thread
Barry Galbraith put in a shift didnt he! finding him cropping up all over the place
16" 1920s/30s L5
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