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Originally Posted by sgcim
For instance Donna Lee certainly has a number of brief repeated phrase modules/motives - for example the celebrated honeysuckle rose motif - that can be very useful as improvisational raw materials. Small unitary motifs can be useful for both embellishing melodies and joining together to create longer lines.
Btw I don’t imagine I’m addressing advanced jazz improvisers with this video. I doubt those looking to be the next Phil Woods are getting their lines from Jens Larsen vids or mine - hopefully (pace Jens, he’d agree I’m certain.)
Maybe I should do is another video showing how to spin out longer lines using these little musical segments.
In terms of melodic sequences these are notably rare in Birds music.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkLast edited by Christian Miller; 03-15-2024 at 04:52 PM.
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03-15-2024 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by sgcim
Perhaps this proves your point. But I think the emphasis of a certain point at the expense of others is part of the technique of teaching. It’s also necessary for music theory of any kind (Schenker being an extreme example haha). I don’t think this is something that started with formal jazz education.
You may also notice that my video doesn’t emphasise note by note analysis. This is quite conscious.
Anyway - The first note is the hippest one, no? We outline Em triad into F. You won’t find that in a jazz manual.
Also F7 over the first chord again shows to me how Bird, like swing era musicians, regarded major and dominant chords as somewhat interchangeable, something jazz players don’t tend to do today.
The point is, in real life, trying to simplify things down to these little rules that Barry Harris or whomever comes up with, results in arguments like these, which is time better spent coming up with your own ideas.
Jazz improvisation takes place on a much more intuitive level than this type of thought.
Do you think Tal Farlow or Lee Konitz came up with the lines that they played from following these rules?
Barry Harris never even played with Bird, because he didn't even come to NY till 1960, and Bird was dead for five years. He just copied Bud Powell and Stitt's records, and stayed in Detroit, lecturing to whoever would listen to him about Bird, when all the time it was Bud Powell that was his main influence.
His knowledge of Parker’s recordings was exhaustive but I don’t think anyone would disagree that Bud was his chief influence. The two do rather go together.
I do sympathise with your feelings regarding the technicisation (is that a word?) of jazz etc. I don’t think that’s what Barry was about but his idea lend themselves to a neat system. People into this stuff seem to talk about that more than the music itself which bothers me. It’s like they’ve delegated the listening side of it to someone else. Probably it’s the new CST.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkLast edited by Christian Miller; 03-15-2024 at 05:34 AM.
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"I might do one called that. Consistency is for the small minded!"
You're paraphrasing Oscar Wilde, who said: "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
So as applied to art, I suppose that would translate to: "don't let a hobgoblin become your muse" (check her credentials).
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Originally Posted by Mick-7
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Originally Posted by Mick-7
I feel better now.
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
You don't have that in mind for us, do you?
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I think the intended title was more like "The licks you are learning are too long.".
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
What is their second to last refuge? Politics?
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Interesting is to look at say, Jimmy Raney, on whose playing people would often wax poetic about his "long, effortless, endlessly flowing lines."
Then sit down and actually pick apart one of his solos...
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Originally Posted by sgcim
;-)
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I would say the clickbait title is necessary for people to watch the video, but noone watched it haha.
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With the discussion, it sounds like maybe the title around here should be 'Your bop licks are too long.'
Martino is pretty famous for both his long licks and his extremely short ones that are repeated for a very, very long time. I love Pat.
It seems a lot of what Christian puts up is about teaching jazz to beginners and intermediates. We sometimes feel a bit 'talked down to'. I do anyways. At times. Other times I learn things!
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Originally Posted by ccroft
Also I’m not sure that Pat spinning out long lines is really relevant to what I mean. Maybe the video wasn’t clear.
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
After over 45years of playing guitar, I'm still in the beginner to intermediate level, and very proud of getting there too.
Maybe, some players on the forum don't know how advanced they are.
Keep up the good work, Christian.
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
For what it’s worth, I do feel talked down to most of the time, but I feel that’s an essential part of the experience of your content and I wouldn’t trade it for the world.
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Also I don’t find this to be like … a “beginner” post …
I think it would be helpful to a beginner, but—music being a thing you do—I find anything different than the way I do it to be very helpful to me as well.
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
I found it helpful. 5 well placed notes sound better to me than 16 bars of straight 8ths.
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Originally Posted by AllanAllen
And I feel like another obvious point being that a compelling long line is generally made up of many compelling small parts.
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
Essential? I don’t know. I could change my style of presentation a bit. What isn’t a deal breaker for you might be for others. Just because I’m like that irl doesn’t mean it needs to part of my videos haha.
OTOH it was never my original intention to be a YouTube jazz guitar teacher. I think YouTube pushes would in that direction.
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Originally Posted by ccroft
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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I also feel like if we’re going to be complaining about YouTube clickbait titles then we also need to complain about crazy YouTube thumbnail graphics.
This is a road I think we can all agree not to go down.
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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Originally Posted by Tal_175
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