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Hi. Maybe someone has an idea about this.
I like to make these type of phrases but for some reason I think they fit way more on a trumpet than in a guitar. I suspect there are Styles of phrasing that fits more into some instruments. I recorded with mobile phone so sound not good but you can get the idea
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For example the 0:20 -0:35
Or here
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0:10-0:20
I improvise but in my head I am thinking of a trumpet.
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But for example this I think It fits for the guitar but the 2:40-2:50 phrases would fit more for a trumpetLast edited by JimmyDunlop; 07-18-2023 at 07:17 PM.
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07-18-2023 06:39 PM
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I wouldn't say that, on first and second takes you play the guitar, on the third one you play music.
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Originally Posted by JimmyDunlop
EDIT: The most important aspect of horn-like phrasing is how horns use legato.
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Originally Posted by Bop Head
imo jazz phrasing is mostly non-legato. jazz lines need some sort of separation of the notes. to my ears most current jazz guitarists play waaay too legato.
here#s my favourite trumpet player bill hardman.
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Are there any technical tricks used in the recording....eg. changing the tempo of the recording?
or i'm deaf..
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Originally Posted by djg
"playing without any tonguing exposes your finger technique and thus, through improved awareness, helps both the time and feel in your fingers. Secondly, it seems to really help improve overall sound and breath support since you won't be breaking the airstream at all with the tongue which allows for a smoother more consistent air stream and sound."
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Originally Posted by Lionelsax
But maybe you have a point. What I tried to say with my post is that the third recording phrases would sound better on a guitar and the first 2 recordings would sound better on a trumpet.
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Originally Posted by JimmyDunlop
On the third you play music with a guitar.
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Originally Posted by djg
I don't know what guitar it was recorded on.
Maybe I'm deaf...sorry.
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Whatever you call this remains my ideal of jazz articulation
I would regard this as legato. Those that got closest to it on guitar. Not every note is played alike.
Are not legato in the guitar slurring sense. Quarter notes are a little detached but the eight notes are connected
but separation of eighth notes can work too. I’ve been listening a lot to Dan Wilson and I love how he plays. I think it depends on the player. That said, I generally don’t like that choppy thing a lot of modern straightahead horn players do where every note is attacked the same and slightly detached. Sounds like they are playing the notes rather than phrases. But if your pocket is amazing, you can get away with that too.
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Originally Posted by kris
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Originally Posted by kris
Originally Posted by Lionelsax
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Originally Posted by JimmyDunlop
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Originally Posted by JimmyDunlop
I mean solo on the full scale of the instrument.
thanks
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Originally Posted by kris
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
of course the king of non-legato playing was jimmy smith. his playing style greatly influenced a certain john coltrane. it#s also worth to closely listen so eddie mcfadden, who is certainly very influenced by smith's super swinging non-legato lines. to my ears mcfadden is closer to the style of bird than the household first generation of bop guitarists (kessell, wayne, salvador, lowe, raney, singer, etc)
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Originally Posted by kris
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And the other slower as u asked
Stream shine.mp3 by Jimmy Dunlop | Listen online for free on SoundCloudLast edited by JimmyDunlop; 07-19-2023 at 08:31 AM.
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I don’t think the phrases are weird for guitar or anything. It just doesn’t sound like there’s much phrasing going on … dynamics, accents, slurring etc.
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Originally Posted by djg
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Originally Posted by kris
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Originally Posted by GuyBoden
i#d disagree with the "time and feel" part. personally i find most of these legato players rather floaty. same with the current crop of legato guitarists. imo playing non legato lines much more exposes your time. but floaty seems to be the order of the day, so dont mind me.
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I have a problem with the common guitarists understanding of legato.
As an ex singer, legato is a basic element of technique. But just because you sing legato does not mean you are not going to sing the words.
otoh on guitar, legato is used often as a synonym for slurring. I don’t see it that way. I see it as the connection between the notes, as opposed to separated or detached. (Legato means literally ‘bound’ - ie connected.) You can articulate each note with a clear separate attack and still be legato.
Many players default to legato, but some players vary the level of connection. Grant Green springs to mind.
we spend so much time in the first few years trying to get players to hold down the notes with the left hand for the full value and here for stop sounding like they are poking at each note, it’s easy to forget that the opposite is a valid and effective musical articulation.
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Listening again to topsy i think the transcription I posted misuses the staccato sign. The notes are short, but fat.
The exact articulation of the quarter notes has a lot of swing in the negative space of the note. Charlie’s 8th note playing is highly articulated but also very legato.
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
i studied this solo hard and just went back to listen at .25 speed to confirm the clear separation of notes most of the time.
of course benson ran with this concept and his first jazz recordings mirror that non-legato approach.
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