Some phrases arent made for guitar?

[equenda]

i......

imo jazz phrasing is mostly non-legato. jazz lines need some sort of separation of the notes. to my ears most current jazz guitarists play waaay too legato.

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@djg
Until now I have never had the COURAGE to say it but I agree on your observation on legato-playing. Thank you!!
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@ Jimmy Dunlop
Your way of improvising is quite original and the choice of notes is good. Maybe you need to pay more attention to the rhytm/beat.

Personally I try to stick to the rhythm like a Koala to the plant.


Ettore - Ettore Quaglia - Jazz Guitar and Rare Jazz Records - Home

[GuyBoden]

I have a problem with the common guitarists understanding of legato.

As an ex singer, legato is a basic element of technique. But just because you sing legato does not mean you are not going to sing the words.

otoh on guitar, legato is used often as a synonym for slurring. I don’t see it that way. I see it as the connection between the notes, as opposed to separated or detached. (Legato means literally ‘bound’ - ie connected.) You can articulate each note with a clear separate attack and still be legato.

Many players default to legato, but some players vary the level of connection. Grant Green springs to mind.

we spend so much time in the first few years trying to get players to hold down the notes with the left hand for the full value and here for stop sounding like they are poking at each note, it’s easy to forget that the opposite is a valid and effective musical articulation.

As I've said before, unfortunately or fortunately, depending on your point of view, Rock guitar has made the term "Legato" in guitar speak mean Hammer on's and Pull off's.

But yes, legato in Italian means "to tie up, tie together, to bind".

[djg]

Listening again to topsy i think the transcription I posted misuses the staccato sign. The notes are short, but fat.

yes, that notation is wrong. in mainstream jazz consecutive quarter notes are played non-legato but not staccato. reading texts like the budddy rich book or the ted reed reflect this.

i always teach the "power of the quarter note". for me, the separated quarter note is the definition of swing rather than the dotted triplet thing

[pamosmusic]

yes, that notation is wrong. in mainstream jazz consecutive quarter notes are played non-legato but not staccato. reading texts like the budddy rich book or the ted reed reflect this.

i always teach the "power of the quarter note". for me, the separated quarter note is the definition of swing rather than the dotted triplet thing

Thats the Wynton Marsalis “Swung Quarter Note.”

I think it’s the Ken Burns thing. He’s talking about Louis Armstrong I know. You can’t swing an eighth note if you can’t swing a quarter.

[Christian Miller]

grant's default is non-legato. he has all kinds of legato artuculation in his bag but his eight note lines are clearly (to my ears) non-legato.

i studied this solo hard and just went back to listen at .25 speed to confirm the clear separation of notes most of the time.

of course benson ran with this concept and his first jazz recordings mirror that non-legato approach.

Strange, I can’t hear a consistent gap between the note tails in the 8th notes in Grants playing. He does do it sometimes. I think I’d be hard pressed to achieve that level of legato if I was trying to play legato tbh. There’ll always be a little gap. But I’ll experiment!

In any case, however you call it, Grants style of articulation is certainly something I aspire to. But he does sometimes separate the notes when he wants to. I hear it as a hornlike control.

the sound is not overly compressed which has an effect. Playing a 330 or other hollow guitar helps probably

i do hear the detachment in Benson more clearly

[Christian Miller]

On the other hand I think Dan Wilson plays quite detached

[JimmyDunlop]

What I think that is unfair is that It took me some effort to reach the top speed of horns with the fingers with a classical guitar, but the trumpet and sax can reach It without much training,
Stream fast by Jimmy Dunlop | Listen online for free on SoundCloud

is like if these instruments are fast by nature. On guitar at least with fingers is way harder.
I don't know how they do It but its related with the speed of blowing? Will be nice to know, somebody knows?

[Lionelsax]

What I think that is unfair is that It took me some effort to reach the top speed of horns with the fingers with a classical guitar, but the trumpet and sax can reach It without much training,
Stream fast by Jimmy Dunlop | Listen online for free on SoundCloud

is like if these instruments are fast by nature. On guitar at least with fingers is way harder.
I don't know how they do It but its related with the speed of blowing? Will be nice to know, somebody knows?

On those instruments it's not only about blowing and moving the fingers.
You think and make the sound first, it's less mechanical than the guitar.

[Lionelsax]

You have to understand that a wind instrument is mostly a diatonic instrument, that can play altered notes with specific fingerings, some don't come so easily.

[JimmyDunlop]

On those instruments it's not only about blowing and moving the fingers.
You think and make the sound first, it's less mechanical than the guitar.

I supposed that it was something like singing right? but blowing and moving fingers. anyways my point is that by average they to play way faster than guitar players.

[Lionelsax]

I supposed that it was something like singing right? but blowing and moving fingers. anyways my point is that by average they to play way faster than guitar players.

On a woodwind instrument yes but it depends of the tonality.
On a brass, certainly not.
The guitar is generally "easier", same muscle memory if you like playing with positions.