Nuages soloing?

**Boss Man Zwiebelsohn** · 05-25-2023, 01:41 AM

I think to play a tune like Nuages it helps -- much more than theory -- to dig deep into the melancholic sentiment of what the Sinti call "our music" (meaning their traditional music based on stuff originating from the times when they were Roma living in Eastern Europe before moving to German countries and France in contrary to jazz standards).

[BTW I am in no way affiliated in any way with the evangelical christian mission stuff in the first video]

**ragman1** · 05-25-2023, 07:06 AM

I used to live with a bunch of Greek guys, all very nice. But they had a strange soulfulness about them, a sort of melancholia which is really indefinable. It went much deeper than mere sadness, in fact it wasn't really sadness as such, they had nothing much to be sad about. It was more just a kind of 'soul'. In fact they were lots of fun and had terrific humour.

That probably seems contradictory, but it wasn't. It was just something in the DNA that was part of them. It's no use trying to emulate it or understand it, you couldn't. Similarly, I'm quite sure, it's the same with the Sinti and other groups of that kind. Django may have had it, probably did, but apart from knowing about it there's not much to be said.

'Nuages' may have its roots in that feeling but most people see the tune as a reaction to the Nazi's occupation of Paris and the hope of liberation. And the French also had their own soul which came out in the music we're familiar with. When Hitler banned the Marseillaise they started using Nuages as their anthem instead. This is well known stuff.

Django himself recorded the tune multiple times and the versions range from jaunty to slow and introspective. So which is the 'right one'? I have no idea, I doubt if there is one.

My own feeling about it is strange. I keep wanting to do it because no version seems quite good enough. Naima had the same effect on me.

**mr. beaumont** · 05-25-2023, 08:21 AM

Graham, meant to say yesterday, really enjoyed that version on nylon.

Its a weird tune. You can play it bright and jaunty, or slow and introspective...but I always hear a ton of blues in it. But I always hear blues in places maybe isn't...thats my problem.

Anyway, here's me trying to make it as bluesy as possible

**ragman1** · 05-25-2023, 02:20 PM

That was actually quite original, Jeff. I've listened to almost every version (except the sung ones) and they're a pretty diverse bunch.

**grahambop** · 05-25-2023, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Graham, meant to say yesterday, really enjoyed that version on nylon.

Its a weird tune. You can play it bright and jaunty, or slow and introspective...but I always hear a ton of blues in it. But I always hear blues in places maybe isn't...thats my problem.

Anyway, here's me trying to make it as bluesy as possible

Thanks Jeff. I think I wanted to do an acoustic version and the classical guitar was the best option available.

I like your bluesy version too. Don't forget Django's late electric version - what a great tone!

**grahambop** · 05-25-2023, 03:11 PM

James Carter on bass sax - also an amazing sound!

**DonEsteban** · 05-25-2023, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by ragman1

I hate these guys :-)

Amazing how Julian gets the melody so wrong, but successfully smiles it away!

:-)

**DonEsteban** · 05-25-2023, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by Bop Head

I think to play a tune like Nuages it helps -- much more than theory -- to dig deep into the melancholic sentiment of what the Sinti call "our music" (meaning their traditional music based on stuff originating from the times when they were Roma living in Eastern Europe before moving to German countries and France in contrary to jazz standards).

Big mix up there... Sinti are not Roma moving west .... very wrong. Look it up.

**ccroft** · 05-25-2023, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by DonEsteban

Amazing how Julian gets the melody so wrong, but successfully smiles it away!:-)

Consummate professional that he is, even at 23 years old.

Sorry to hijack, but which guitar sounds better? The new Parker or the '32 L5? I like them both. Not that I'm going to be buying either anytime soon or anything. Just curiosity about other's opinions.

The upper register sustain on the Parker was notable to me, as was the warmth of the L5.

**Boss Man Zwiebelsohn** · 05-26-2023, 03:01 AM

Originally Posted by DonEsteban

Big mix up there... Sinti are not Roma moving west .... very wrong. Look it up.

Latcho chico, I have looked it up long time ago. The Sinti/Manouche count as a subgroup of the Roma that moved to Central and Western Europe a few hundred years ago.

But I know from experience that the Sinti distance themselves from Eastern European Roma (living here only since the 19th century or more recently) in a way that I would describe as racist. The guy who plays piano in the second video I posted once told me once: "You may call me 'Zigeuner' [a word that in the German public narrative is now valued as as bad as the 'n word' for an African or African-American], but never call me 'Roma'. I am not someone someone sitting in the street corner begging for money."

BTW when I showed him Raimundo Amador he said; "Yes, that's one of our people."