Video: Learning Improvisation with Bach

[Christian Miller]

I can't wait for the comments on this lol

[ragman1]

I'm still waiting to hear what Bach can teach us about improvisation. As far as I can see his stuff is pretty well diatonic, as befits the classical music of that time. The Am stuff doesn't modulate to anything radical at all and uses just the chords one might expect in an Am composition.

At about 35.20 it goes E7 - F#o - E7 - Am. You say that's an F#o but there's no Eb in it. It's much more akin to Am/F# and the F# may just be part of the bass line E-F#-G#-A while the chords go E7-Am-E7-Am.

But I definitely think you could start a new line as a radio presenter. You have the voice.

[Christian Miller]

At about 35.20 it goes E7 - F#o - E7 - Am. You say that's an F#o but there's no Eb in it. It's much more akin to Am/F# but the F# may just be a bass line E-F#-G#-A while the chords go E7-Am-E7-Am.

There’s a D# in the score, which is available through the link in the description

the notes in the arpeggio are

F# A C A D# E

It’s not quite either a (mispelled) F#o7 or a F#m7b5 but both. I chose to hear the E as a pedal from the previous chord and the rest of the chord as a dim7. You may differ and in a sense it probably doesn’t matter what the chord is called, that’s an anachronism anyway as Bach didn’t name chords that way. Its the way that intervals in it are prepared and resolved

btw naming chords without the bass you’re kind of missing the point tbh - the bass is really really important here. The chords/counterpoint can be changed around while the bass remains more or less fixed, as opposed to the chords being fixed and the bass changing as it is in jazz/pop harmony

[ragman1]

There’s a D# in the score, which is available through the link in the description

the notes in the arpeggio are

F# A C A D# E

It’s not quite either a F#o7 or a F#m7b5 but both. I chose to hear the E as a pedal from the previous chord and the rest of the chord as a dim7. You may differ and in a sense it probably doesn’t matter what the chord is called. Its the way that intervals in it are prepared and resolved

btw naming chords without the bass you’re kind of missing the point of Bachs music tbh. It’s built from the bass (and counterpoint), not from the chords.

The link's only on the YouTube site and takes you to a vast array of videos. But I take your word for it.

I know it's built from the bass but I couldn't see an Eb/D#, just Am, and that ascending bass line. I see/hear that repeating E at the top just as an attractive way of doing the melody. Quite groovy, really!

[ragman1]

I forgot. I think it's okay to have an F#o there. The D# resolves nicely to the E of E7. Why not?

(It's not an F#m7b5)

[Christian Miller]

The link's only on the YouTube site and takes you to a vast array of videos. But I take your word for it.

I know it's built from the bass but I couldn't see an Eb/D#, just Am, and that ascending bass line. I see/hear that repeating E at the top just as an attractive way of doing the melody. Quite groovy, really!

Ive probably messed up the link, I’ll fix it.. thanks for letting me know

yeah Bach likes to do that sort of thing just keeps a pedal tone even when it creates some very pungent dissonances. Usually he does it in the bass, but here it’s in the melody…

[Christian Miller]

I forgot. I think it's okay to have an F#o there. The D# resolves nicely to the E of E7. Why not?

(It's not an F#m7b5)

well if actually goes down to D in the next chord which is the top note of the E7/G# arpeggio (as in the counterpoint outline). Which is interesting, not what you’d expect exactly, the sort of thing you might get marked down for in your Bach harmony exam lol?

The high E pedal just lasts two chords.

[itsmyname]

the church reverb in your voice is perfect for this video cause Bach made all his music for the love of god !



(interesting video, good job)

[Christian Miller]

Link for the scores and notation related to the vid

Bach_Double_Analysis.pdf - Google Drive
Links should be working now

[ragman1]

Okay. It's murder trying to get this stuff right. Here's the bit we were talking about. Let's hope I've got this right!



Firstly, I misread it. The D in the F#o arp is a D# because it's already sharp in that bar. I missed that and thought it was natural, hence Am. Apologies.

So nothing's changed, it's F#o and it resolves to the natural D of E7 in the next bar.

As you were. Sorry, my fault.

[Christian Miller]

I’m quite surprised musescore didn’t write a precautionary natural sign in the next bar.

Ah well, it’s all in the tabz lol