JGBE Virtual Jam (Round 52) - GIANT STEPS

[kris]

To play Coltrane requires a lot of practice.
Just like all jazz ...
If someone does not understand it, it does not do it.
I'm leaving this strange place !!!

[Lionelsax]

On Giant Steps, a tune I never dared to play, I'm not impressed by the harmony, the chords, the changes, call them the way you want.
I'm more impressed by the flow and the articulation, it sounds good, very very good.
So, I tried it on alto, I'm struggling, it is not a difficult tune but it's hard to make it sound good.
Even if I'm a saxophonist, not a good one but not the worst, I can't play it with a good flow and good articulation.

I'm sorry for posting this.

[grahambop]

Interesting perspective here from Barry Harris. He says he doesn’t like the tune much, but despite that he plays some great lines on it (he gets going properly about 6 minutes in).

His main point seems to be getting off the B chord asap (i.e. after one beat) and aiming lines at the D7 chord immediately, and so on. Sounds good and I guess it fits in with his general approach of focussing on the dominants.

[grahambop]

I'm sorry for posting this.

Don’t be, I thought that sounded good. Reminded me a bit of Lee Konitz at times.

Maybe this tune just sounds better on a sax anyway.

[ragman1]

"I would never play..."

Me, neither, Barry :-)

I've just tried this. Now it's a bossa only the chords are doubled in length. Even then, I tell you, with all the time in the world, my fingers did not want to bridge to those disconnected keys. They've been going to related keys for so long. Ah, well, I suppose it's pleasant if nothing else. This is about half the original length.

[grahambop]

Doing it as a slow bossa is a good way to practise it and get the hang of the changes, I think. I’ve done that a few times.

[ragman1]

Yes, the next step would be to play the changes at their right length.

It's probably about time this was posted. It would be interesting to hear peoples' views on it.

[vintagelove]

"I would never play..."

Me, neither, Barry :-)

I've just tried this. Now it's a bossa only the chords are doubled in length. Even then, I tell you, with all the time in the world, my fingers did not want to bridge to those disconnected keys. They've been going to related keys for so long. Ah, well, I suppose it's pleasant if nothing else. This is about half the original length.

Those changes are really beautiful played like that. Thanks for posting it.

[ragman1]

You should try it, you don't have to show it to anybody. Don't forget I was playing all the chords slowly and at double-length. Even then it's extraordinarily hard to slot into the next key. Even if you get there it sounds wrong to the ear - until you hear it back against the changes. The only way to do it was loudly and brazenly play what I had to play and ignore what your ear's telling you.

So, right after that, I was wondering if the solo notes could be altered in some way so they fit relative to the main key of B. It probably wouldn't work but I haven't tried it yet.

[grahambop]

Joe Pass did it as a sort of bossa. Apparently this track got sampled for a hip-hop record, bizarrely.

[ragman1]

Yes, I've heard it before but not all the way through. He doesn't put any real rhythm on it till about halfway through.

[grahambop]

(Yeah I know, you've seen this a zillion times before ... but I like the trombone solo at the end )

yeah as I recall it was put together by some Dutch jazz guy, he plays a good solo there.

I think it’s this guy:

Ilja Reijngoud - Wikipedia

[mayrandp]

[Triple_Jazz]

1171984[/URL]]This is ridiculous.
Giant Steps is one of the most popular jazz standards.
Recorded for the first time in 1960.
Anyone who is seriously interested in playing jazz should take the time to understand what Giant Steps is all about.
You just have to want to practice and not talk nonsense.
Let's respect time.

For the purposes of the virtual jam this is not necessary at all. If one desired to master GS and record it for an official album and expect to perform in front of paying fans then this is correct. When jumping in on a tune at a jam, even a virtual jam, the reward is in the courage and commitment to go in and try it. One should have some general understanding of the form but in no way would I advocate for people to abstain from sitting in on the tune if they haven’t spent a year analyzing it.

Also Giant Steps was recorded in ‘59 but released in ‘60

[mayrandp]

Cowboy style:

Minor Leaps:

John Swana on EVI:

[Lionelsax]

Staying alive, I never surrender !
In waltz again !

You can comment !

[kris]

For the purposes of the virtual jam this is not necessary at all. If one desired to master GS and record it for an official album and expect to perform in front of paying fans then this is correct. When jumping in on a tune at a jam, even a virtual jam, the reward is in the courage and commitment to go in and try it. One should have some general understanding of the form but in no way would I advocate for people to abstain from sitting in on the tune if they haven’t spent a year analyzing it.

Also Giant Steps was recorded in ‘59 but released in ‘60

Sure.Thanks for correct.

Released	February 1960
Recorded	May 4–5, 1959 December 2, 1959
Studio	Atlantic Studios, New York

[kris]

(Yeah I know, you've seen this a zillion times before ... but I like the trombone solo at the end )

[kris]

[ragman1]

.

Well done, I've been looking around for various versions and only seen the julian Lage one... which always makes me think it must be easier than it looks :-)

[lawson-stone]

That's not the reason you're not posting, Lawson :-)

I do think it's shallow and boring. It's just an endless stream of notes without any real depth. For me, anyway.

I'm all for players wanting to play a bit faster and with more fluency, I wish I could do it myself, but that sort of ultra-rapid stuff isn't my bag. It's not hostile, or an attack, it's just the way it is. All a matter of taste, I suppose.

You know why I'm not posting? That is truly remarkable. You're a mind-reader!

And when you use language like "shallow and boring...without any real depth" that is in fact hostile, censorious language. Maybe your sensibility is too limited to grasp what the player is doing. I used to think PAT METHENY was "fast with no depth" and then I grew enough musically to realize that was my own limited taste talking.

[John A.]

I respectfully suggest that we keep the extraneous commentary and judgment to a minimum. Either post your version of the tune, post constructive commentary on someone's version, post link to an interesting performance, or post some sort of useful guide to playing the tune.

Please don't otherwise pontificate, at least not without a sense of humor. Let's please not turn this into yet another family squabble and drive more posters away. The central purpose here should be sharing jam-like brief performances. Let's keep that in mind.

[rpjazzguitar]

I think the first thing that makes Giant Steps difficult is that it's hard to really feel the flow of the harmony.

It has taken a long time to be able to not have to think about what chord change is coming up -- and just feel it.

The second thing that makes it difficult is that it's often played quite fast. So, for example, you can't ignore the Bmaj for two beats of bar 1 (well, maybe you could), but, otoh, you don't have much time to do anything with it. That's unlike most other tunes.

For a long time I really didn't like the tune. Now, that I can scuffle through it by ear, I dislike it less.

[ragman1]

Staying alive, I never surrender !
In waltz again !

You can comment !

I liked that! But it's not in waltz, that's 4/4.

[Lionelsax]

I liked that! But it's not in waltz, that's 4/4.

It's in 6/8 !