JGBE Virtual Jam (Round 14) - Tune Up

[TOMMO]

yea some more cool posts... I apologize for talking too much (quote edited for convenience).. Next post will be just about playing.

Talking too much? Absolutely not, Reg! Some great advice and I (we) really appreciate it!

[mr. beaumont]

TOMMO, great sound, nice playing!
PeterC, if that's what smooth jazz sounded like, I'd listen to it

[rpjazzguitar]

For giggles, a tribute to our pal ragman

Nice and slow, reverby acoustic, trying to be melodic. Fun

Some players get great tone from anything. You have that ability or gift. The playing sounds great, great time feel, interesting harmony within the lines. Great playing overall.

[TOMMO]

TOMMO, great sound, nice playing!
PeterC, if that's what smooth jazz sounded like, I'd listen to it

Thank you Jeff!

[Peter C]

Reg, for people doing a full time job outside of music, it's all about prioritizing any free time coming our way. If you're a pro / married to a lawyer, you may be practicing 8 hours a day and if you are, you better be good! A guy here got pretty upset when I thought his playing on a particular track wasn't up to scratch for a pro.

Regarding speed, you personally come across as pretty hyperactive in your videos, which is cool by me, though I remember reading some posts in YT "expressing the desire" for you to slow down a tad. A lot of people function at lower r.p.m. You're a great player in my book, by the way. Post something!

So, what should a player like me do with his 8 hours a month practice? (<Not exaggerating, some months). I'm not a trained jazzer, so I could do more experimentation with altered scales, tritone subs etc and see if they add to my soloing vocabulary in a positive way. Probably would. I could learn a couple more standards, do some transcribing etc etc. Or, I can work on my own music: apart from 5 "finished" demos, I currently have another 10 or so tunes waiting to be developed and arranged. Anyway, I'm a participator by nature, so I just throw out whatever I hear in these jams; I'm not easily embarrassed, though I might take my contribution to this one down if it bothers me too much.

Two-octave arpeggios? Yep, and I recently stumbled on a short clip by a guy called Mitch Chmara entitled "Don't let the chord get in your way" LOL which looks interesting.

Jeff, I think the plink is more down to my Ibanez's acoustic projection than string type, in spite of being a lam top, plus natural room reverb. Smooth jazz? OMG!!

Tommo, you're absolutely right. So, given time, I would record into a DAW and fade out after a couple of choruses.

[lawson-stone]

I think a fair number of us actually get it and think you're right about this. But for a lot of us part-timers, putting in a year of technical practice would come at the expense of, say, learning more tunes or playing with other people. The best we can do is incorporate some degree of technical practice into our routines and hope for incremental improvements.


John

For some of us a year of technical practice would likely cost a year of salary! I have, at the very best, an hour a day to do everything on the instrument that I do. Work, family, land, horses, fences, barn, pasture, family claim most of my time. I sneak in 10-15 minute moments to play and learn tunes and try to learns some vocabulary or technique... then it's back to the other stuff.

[Triple_Jazz]

A simple practice plan... can you play,

Any chord... two octave arpeggio... starting on each chord tone from 6th string up to 1st string (chord and inversions) Start slow to get a plan then... play faster than you can and try and stay in tempo with mistakes.

Any chord... two octaves arpeggio, same format but with all extensions.

Then the same thing with scales...Some use the three minors as organization for generating the 21 scales.

Using whatever picking approach you choose... just be consistent and with some coherent organization... so that it will repeat. That's it.... within 6 months you'll start to have some chops. Your ears will work because your training them to hear basic musical tools. I apologize for talking too much... Next pot will be just about playing.

I think I could invest about 2-3 hours a week on this. So just to be clear, and using F as my starting point, I’m doing the 3 note major and minor arpeggio for two octaves, all three positions. Then I would do what? The M7, m7, Dom7, and m7b5 for all four of their inversions. That’s probably about all I would have time for. I’ll give it a 6 month trial along with some additional scales (I already practice at least once a week 7 scales). I’ll do F on Monday then Bb on Tuesday, all through the cycle. 15 minutes a day. This would mean I skip learning a new tune, which I’ll pick back up in 6 months. We’ll see what happens!

[John A.]

I took another crack at it, this time with one of the faster backing tracks.

This time I just plugged my computer into the aux input of my Roland MicroCube along with my guitar and recorded both with my phone. Not the best sound (more of the guitar's unplugged sound than I like), and it annoyed my wife considerably (which I'm told is a bad thing ...). But definitely simpler than my Garageband + Quicktime + iMovie method.

So speaking to the whole playing fast/technique question, I thought I played this fairly cleanly. But at this tempo there's more in the way of autopilot straight 1/8's, less in the way of interesting ideas, and I can't do much with 1/16ths. Harmonized lines would be mainly whole and half notes (didn't actually play any here). Mr. B should be pleased with my flirting-with-disaster picking. Definitely need more organized technique practice.

Tommo: Very nice take, I think your best so far. You played like you're comfortable with the tune.

PeterC: yeah, I'd say that rhythmic bag is more your thing than straightahead/swing. Your phrasing works well here and you seem more comfortable and at home. Sounds really good.

[wzpgsr]

So speaking to the whole playing fast/technique question, I thought I played this fairly cleanly. But at this tempo there's more in the way of autopilot straight 1/8's, less in the way of interesting ideas, and I can't do much with 1/16ths. Harmonized lines would be mainly whole and half notes (didn't actually play any here). Mr. B should be pleased with my flirting-with-disaster picking. Definitely need more organized technique practice.

Yeah! I struggle to play anything worth playing well below this tempo, so please take my comments with that in mind. No advice—just observation. Immediately noticeable to me was that, overall, your time felt more solid on the fast runs than the slower, longer-held notes. Probably something to do with the same phenomenon I’ve noticed where it’s easier to keep time when I subdivide into triplets when playing over 4/4 at slow or ballad tempos.

And man, I love that seat-of-the-pants thing I’ve been hearing from you in general when the tempo gets cooking. Reminds me in a way of when you hear a piano player swinging really hard at slow tempo and it feels like he’s gonna fall off the piano bench but always manages to bring it back right on schedule. Nice work!

[TOMMO]

I took another crack at it, this time with one of the faster backing tracks.

Kudos for attempting this - would give me lots of trouble but inspires me to give it a shot (without those fast lines) - Well done, John!

Tommo: Very nice take, I think your best so far. You played like you're comfortable with the tune.

Thanky you John. I'm fairly familiar with Tune Up - great tune to work on ii - V - I vocabulary.

[djg]

I think I could invest about 2-3 hours a week on this. So just to be clear, and using F as my starting point, I’m doing the 3 note major and minor arpeggio for two octaves, all three positions. Then I would do what? The M7, m7, Dom7, and m7b5 for all four of their inversions. That’s probably about all I would have time for. I’ll give it a 6 month trial along with some additional scales (I already practice at least once a week 7 scales). I’ll do F on Monday then Bb on Tuesday, all through the cycle. 15 minutes a day. This would mean I skip learning a new tune, which I’ll pick back up in 6 months. We’ll see what happens!

this could be a cool challenge if we could find someone who would be willing to invest the same amount of time but basically do the opposite, namely practicing only a few authentic bebop moves within the octave with focus on application. i'd be happy to provide the framework for such a volunteer. would be interesting to compare the experiences after 6 months.

[ragman1]

It's not fast but it is nice.

[Danil]

this could be a cool challenge if we could find someone who would be willing to invest the same amount of time but basically do the opposite, namely practicing only a few authentic bebop moves within the octave with focus on application. i'd be happy to provide the framework for such a volunteer. would be interesting to compare the experiences after 6 months.

I could give it a try if nobody else emerges, I've been considering doing this eventually (like bookmarked Bebop Part I – Perpetual Motion Exercises | Jason Lyon on Music and stashed 'Learning the bebop language' by David Baker ).
I play electric bass or otherwise comp on a guitar. When being asked to improvise nothing good comes out - Tripple_Jazz has quite a head start.
20-25 minutes per day is probably maximum I can put aside for this, if somebody else is volunteering I will gladly pass, since I've got a lot on my plate already.

[Reg]

I think I could invest about 2-3 hours a week on this. So just to be clear, and using F as my starting point, I’m doing the 3 note major and minor arpeggio for two octaves, all three positions. Then I would do what? The M7, m7, Dom7, and m7b5 for all four of their inversions. That’s probably about all I would have time for. I’ll give it a 6 month trial along with some additional scales (I already practice at least once a week 7 scales). I’ll do F on Monday then Bb on Tuesday, all through the cycle. 15 minutes a day. This would mean I skip learning a new tune, which I’ll pick back up in 6 months. We’ll see what happens!

Yea... you'll be happy.
Just to clairify

Start with Key of "G" (it will work easier when starting, in the end it doesn't matter)

1) Play Gmaj. scale in 2nd position. (2 octaves) (Ionian))
2) Then play the 3 note Gmaj. Triad Arpeggio, two octaves, also in 2nd position

3) Then up to 6th position... play Bmin. version of Gmaj scale, (phrygian), again 2 octaves. 1st finger stretches
4) Then the 3 note Gmaj. Arpeggio starting on "B", the 3rd degree. Two octaves, 6th position with 1st finger stretches

5) then up to 9th position... play D7 version of Gmaj. scale, (mixo) again 2 octaves
6) then play last inversion of 3 note Gmaj. Triad arpeggio, two octaves, also in 9th position.

If you need the complete study notated out... I have it, but generally... you going through the process of writing it out will help as much as the playing.

[Triple_Jazz]

this could be a cool challenge if we could find someone who would be willing to invest the same amount of time but basically do the opposite, namely practicing only a few authentic bebop moves within the octave with focus on application. i'd be happy to provide the framework for such a volunteer. would be interesting to compare the experiences after 6 months.

Sure, but perhaps an informal challenge. So long as the other participant is posting videos in the virtual jam threads we can watch the progress literally unfold over the next 6 months.

I have never taken lessons from anyone. I did an intro to guitar class in high school (1992) which got me started on guitar, but that was the closest thing to any lessons. I learned everything out of a book called “The Complete Guitarist” in the 90’s. This arpeggio challenge will be interesting since I went over them years ago but never put them into a practice routine as Reg has suggested.

[Reg]

Yea... Triple, not really a challenge, contest or anything like that. I'm here to help guitarist get better. Help you be able to play tunes easier with not so much work etc... Generally learning tunes is a different aspect of practice. If you picked up a tenor sax, would you just start learning jazz tunes.

Also the sooner you get to 7th chords the easier it becomes and you'll begin to see and hear the bigger picture of how all this BS works together. Also... if you just want to do this privately, we can use PMs or emails.

[TOMMO]

Just for sh*ts and giggles:

[Reg]

LOL that was great, best post... thanks

[TOMMO]

LOL that was great, best post... thanks

Thank you Reg.

[ragman1]

More sh*t than giggles, mind

That was a joke

[John A.]

Just for sh*ts and giggles:

Cool! Have you ever checked out Dave Tronzo?

[TOMMO]

That was a joke

I knew it was....

Cool! Have you ever checked out Dave Tronzo?

Yes: I'm aware of him although his stuff is a bit too way out for me...


Question to you all:

My "musical brain" keeps wanting to hear the turnaround (E-7 | F7 | Bbmaj7 | A7 ) as E-7b5 | F7#9 | Bbmaj7 | A7 alt |
What do you think?

[John A.]

I knew it was....




Yes: I'm aware of him although his stuff is a bit too way out for me...


Question to you all:

My "musical brain" keeps wanting to hear the turnaround (E-7 | F7 | Bbmaj7 | A7 ) as E-7b5 | F7#9 | Bbmaj7 | A7 alt |
What do you think?

On the head, E-7b5 works with the A in the melody, but F7#9 is pretty dissonant. I mean it's a sound, and you could certainly do it, but I'm not crazy about the sound of the G# there. I would tend to comp it more as a plain old F7, or maybe a b9. Blowing, anything goes as long as it's responsive to the rest of the band.

[rpjazzguitar]

On the head, E-7b5 works with the A in the melody, but F7#9 is pretty dissonant. I mean it's a sound, and you could certainly do it, but I'm not crazy about the sound of the G# there. I would tend to comp it more as a plain old F7, or maybe a b9. Blowing, anything goes as long as it's responsive to the rest of the band.

I like it like this

x7878x
x8789x
x10 8 10 10 x
x7 11 11 11 x

[Peter C]

My last appointment today was cancelled, so I thought I'd work on th ol' swing thing a bit. Warning: roughly edited content.