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Here is my submission, I went all in.
I played it first on 17” then switched to 16” and tried it. I fused the two recordings together. I’m still trying to figure out which guitars allow me to play fast tempos more comfortably.
Last edited by Triple_Jazz; 04-16-2021 at 12:57 PM.
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04-16-2021 12:40 PM
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Cool! I wish I could manage fast lines like these (and be able to scratch an itching nose in between).
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Originally Posted by TOMMO;[URL="tel:1114934"
I got back on the beat by the skin of my nose!
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COOKIN' TRIPLE!
For my money, I like the sound of the 16." But you seem to get around fine on both.
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Since we have my daughter and her boyfriend here for the weekend I guess I'll not be able to record and post a clip until sunday...
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When you first switched to the smaller guitar it seemed like you were more in sync with track and your picking had a better swing feel, but wound up drifting a bit and toward the end sounded pretty much the same as with the larger guitar. Originally Posted by Triple_Jazz
John
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What I find challenging about this tune is to somehow get beyond playing a series of 4 bar phrases.
So, I went back to Miles' original. He played a series of 4 bar phrases.
So, I tried to play a three bar phrase and then play 4 bar phrases starting with the second bar of each Imaj. Then with an extra bar at the end.
Looked good in writing.
I'm going to try it again.
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Feel is my number one obstacle. I just don’t know how to really get into the groove right. Sometimes I hit it and then fall right off. Originally Posted by John A.;[URL="tel:1114973"
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If you're struggling with feel at fast tempos, slow it down, and gradually work your way up. iRealPro is great for that. Originally Posted by Triple_Jazz
John
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Its not that, my feel sucks in general. Last jam IYOSW is half the speed and my feel only was swinging at moments. I’ve got this robotic delivery for some reason. Originally Posted by John A.;[URL="tel:1115003"
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For giggles, a tribute to our pal ragman
Nice and slow, reverby acoustic, trying to be melodic. Fun
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I hear long strings of rapid eighth notes in my mind, but I can't play that fast.
It's hard to construct a melodic line that doesn't restart every 4 bars, but I tried.
That's the Comins GCS-1 through a Boss ME80, to add reverb. Then to a Little Jazz with the bass all the way down. Mids and highs at about noon. Reverb at 8o'clock. Backing track from an old phone into a Roland KB150. All right into a second, newer, phone.
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Make the boyfriend take a chorus. Even if he doesn’t play. Show him who’s boss. Originally Posted by TOMMO
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I feel like you always have some new sounding lines in every solo. This was especially cookin’ you might say. Sonny Stitt has a version of this tune with lots of really long flowing lines. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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Call me SchmatteMensch ...
John
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If you can hear what is off in your rhythm (which seems to be the case) then you're a good percent of the way towards solving it through practice. I do think that slowing down is one of the key elements of that. Originally Posted by Triple_Jazz
The faster you go, the less you swing (you in general, not just you specifically). So to really internalize swingtime, you have to practice it consciously at tempos where you can control the degree of swing in your 1/8 notes and (if playing with iRealPro or backing tracks) where your 1/8 notes sit in relation to the ride cymbal.
It's also helpful to practice stuff like starting and ending phrases on different beats and off vs down beats, as well as triplets of varying duration, again, at tempos where you can really do this with intention.
John
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I like this a lot. Lots of good ideas, and interesting mix of phrase lengths and note durations. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
John
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John, nice variety in your lines. Blues, fast lines and those chord lines were cool!
Triple Jazz, I liked the 16'. To me it seemed more alive, but there was nice articulations and phrasing on both!
Rp, I really like that sound. Very melodic playing. Makes me want to get a DV Little Jazz amp even though I really don't need another amp...
Nice acoustic versions John and Jeff. Good tribute to this week's tune chooser!
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John, that abstract was nice! Love the SelMac sound for it too.
Rp, that's some "grown up" playing. I had originally tried this tune with a track that was about 260...I kept telling myself ,"just be musical" but every time, once I settled in, it was off to the races...and because I was in over my head, it was off to the races with boring cliche lines and shit time.
This is an example of great restraint and melodicism. WWJHD? (What would Jim Hall do?)
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Mr. B, I think you are too hard on yourself about your take.
Hate to criticize our beloved backing tracks iReal or elsewise but... a good rhythm section doesn't play up tempo the same as mid tempo. iReal and most programmable backing track bs takes mid tempo comping and just speeds it up.
A great rhythm section can make 300+ feel just as comfortable as 120. It's the hits. Too many hits at a fast tempo will tense up the soloist. That old adage of "think slow when you play fast" is so true because it allows you to relax and actually play some. If I feel every quarter note in my body when I play uptempo I lock up. I can't groove. It's very psychological.
Uptempo is a great opportunity to think big beat. Unfortunately, big beat isn't a popular subject on Youtube--even for a lot of drummers. Being able to feel one measure or two measures without counting isn't a parlor trick--it's a survival skill. Subdividing is a crucial skill, but so is macro time... but don't tell Ari Hoeing I said that
I'll post some examples of macro time concepts over Tune-up. Big beat, macro-time--whatever you wanna call it--that's what taught me how to flow and how to have more control of silence. Still a work in progress, but learning to feel larger chunks of time gives a framework to hang your musical ideas and allows your body to relax so you can actually execute those ideas.
Hopefully this post doesn't spring another pissing contest. Honestly, big beat studies can REALLY open up your playing at ANY tempo.
Here is a rare video on macro time--Lage Lund to the rescue:
Remember, this isn't about showing off with your metronome. Feeling the pulse like this frees up your body so you can be more and more musical. Added bonus--using the metronome like this is the best way to learn how to phrase. Want to work on your 2 bar phrases? Setup your metronome to click once every two measures. Want longer, four bar phrases? Setup your metronome to click once every four measures. Helps you hear the end of each phrase.
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MrB, thanks for the positive review ... and you brought up an issue I think about all the time. Since I don't recall it discussed on here, I'll bring it up. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
What do you do when you don't have all the tools that the greats of the genre have?
What if you have a simpler harmonic palette, you don't have a lot of jazz vocabulary, you can't play fast and you don't have other aspects of great technique? And, what if you've reached a certain age, having done your best to develop them, and you got only part way? Im talking about my own experience.
I thought about calligraphy. This is an artist with one brush, one color, and that color is black. Yet, the calligrapher makes art too. It's not an oil painting, but it's art and people appreciate it.
I recall a great LA based saxophonist, Robert Kyle, at a jam. He played an absolutely killer solo and I realized somewhere along the line that he didn't play a lot of notes and he didn't play anything "outside". What he did do was make great melody with great time feel. He made you want to dance and scream.
Then I thought about scat singing, which I've posted about before. It seems to me that your scat singing is very close to your heart. Can players really scat eighth notes at 260bpm? Or are they piecing things together in a different way? My conclusion is that it's a combination of jazz vocabulary and a certain amount of new material. Done well, it's fantastic, but, I wondered, Robert Kyle's solo could easily have been scat sung. Maybe I should think about that.
Jim Hall is my ATF. But, his slow stuff. I didn't enjoy his fast playing nearly as much. I like Carlos Santana - he does it with melody, time and tone. He's no daredevil harmonically and his best stuff isn't particularly fast. Wes is as melodic as anyone and doesn't sound fast (although it seems faster when you actually try to play his stuff).
So, I concluded that I should try to develop a style that makes the most of what I can hear and play -- and not keep trying to do everything. I still ended up with more than enough to work on.
Finally to the point. I went through the exact same process as you with Tune Up. I thought, this is a tune I should play north of 240, if not 280, in streams of eighths. I could sort of hear that, not the individual notes, but the resulting sheet of sound. When I tried I was completely dissatisfied with the results. I persevered and, eventually, realized it wasn't going to work. At that point I decided to try to play it in the style I've been working on. It feels like a compromise, because I think that most players and audience members prefer classic jazz guitar to what I'm trying to do -- and I agree with them. But, I can't do that. I'm trying to do calligraphy, not oils.
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Picking, that's cool stuff, but it has nothing to do with my time, It's simple mechanics. I literally can't pick straight 8ths above 220 or so without slurring.
Which isn't a sin, mind you, but it's a different sound.
What I need to do is listen to more Jim Hall but also, to get my shit together picking wise. Its possible...but I need to put in some work. Spot on RP.
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Rpjazzguitar and Jeff, you guys are both making me feel better about taking this one relatively slow.
I like that calligraphy analogy, and your point about making art with what you've got. But I might push back a little against the idea that once you've reached a certain age you're done adding colors to your palette. I feel like there's still potential to improve technically and come up with new vocabulary. I'm almost 59, but I feel like I've added more in the last 5 years or so than in the prior 15 or more.
Maybe that will end in another few years (or less), but I'm going to keep trying. There are limits - I'm never going to be George Benson or Michael Brecker, and there are certain stylistic and mental aspects that are probably set -- but subtle development and a feeling of progress are available.
JohnLast edited by John A.; 04-17-2021 at 03:35 PM.
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You know me, I am all about obsessing over how I hear things. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
That said, it really is psychosomatic. The way you hear directly effects what you play... that's a given. The way you hear also directly effects how you play. If the way your hear gets you anxious that anxiety translates to physical rigidity.
We've all heard you play, Mr. B. You've got the musicality and the technique to work up your picking. I always dig what you bring to these threads, playing wise. You know how to pull all that delicious tone outta yer jazzbox and tele
Give yourself less aural input when you practice playing up above 220. My mentor did that with me over Cherokee. I was like, "I can't play anything over 200bpm! I'll never get there!" Next lesson, he starts playing Cherokee and says "play a little bit." I am listening to his comping and it sounds nice and relaxed. I'm thinking that he's playing 160 tops because it sounds so relaxed. I start playing some of my normal stuff and he says, "see! I knew you could play over 200bpm!"
Technique is crucial, that's a given. Yes, there are mechanics and all. But I think we often under estimate how much of our physical technique starts with our ears. Aimee Nolte has a video where she talks about playing fast. She said something like, "you want to play faster, then you gotta listen to a bunch of master musicians playing fast." No amount of Troy Grady will totally remedy up tempo playing if it ain't thoroughly anchored in your ears first.
Not hear to argue. Just saying, I bet you can alternate pick faster than you think. That's all coming from the fastest Ear Picker in the West. If I can pick mountains of wax outta my ears in seconds flat, than you can pick 8ths 220 and above
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I agree with all of that. And, I still work to improve. It's just that I've narrowed my goals to furthering what I see as my own style. Then again, I'm 71 with arthritis. The bananas can't be too green, to use a terrible analogy. Originally Posted by John A.
Rpjazzguitar and Jeff, you guys are both making me feel better about taking this one relatively slow.
I like that calligraphy analogy, and your point about making art with what you've got. But I might push back a little against the idea that once you've reached a certain age you're done adding colors to your palette. I feel like there's still potential to improve technically and come up with new vocabulary. I'm almost 59, but I feel like I've added more in the last 5 years or so than in the prior 15 or more.
Maybe that will end in another few years (or less), but I'm going to keep trying. There are limits - I'm never going to be George Benson or Michael Breaker, and there are certain stylistic and mental aspects that are probably set -- but subtle development and a feeling of progress are available.
John
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Bossa Dorado solo arrangement and lesson
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