JGBE Virtual Jam (Round 12) - Unit 7

[John A.]

Just a quick comment on one small point.

G natural minor G A Bb C D Eb F
G harmonic minor G A Bb C D Eb Gb
G melodic minor G A Bb C D E Gb
G dorian G A Bb C D E F

So, 5 notes are common to all four.

Then, you can have an Eb or an E. An F or a Gb.

All four possible permutations are represented.

Just seems to me that it's easier to think, which 6th, which 7th, than all four scale names. Or better yet, learn the sounds and pick the 6 and 7 by ear.

I don't generally think in terms of scale names while playing, but in the context of the discussion it made sense to use them.

John

[wzpgsr]

I wasn't talking about staying on it for the whole chorus, but only over the C7.

One thing I puzzle over with Wes Montgomery. He plays the blues, but it's amazingly free of cliches. He plays bop, but doesn't sound like a Charlie Parker-on-Guitar clone. It's always kinds of surprising but not weird. This Gm Pentatonic over C7 in a blues has that Wes feel that I've been hunting for. Likewise, playing the Cm over the F7 does the harmonic shift but continues the different feel. Maybe it's just a matter of playing the same set of notes but with a different starting tones and off-center emphasis notes!

I'm so far out of my depth here... I went nuts about 20 years ago studying chord-scale theory but couldn't play anything, so for 15 years or so I've basically just played and not thought too much about the theory, so this is straining my brain.

I'm heading for something simpler, like a Middle Egyptian Hieroglyphic inscription...

Have you ever checked out Garrison Fewell’s triad books? Wes didn’t limit himself to triads but those GF exercises opened my ears up a bit to recognize that triad sound in lots of what I hear as Wes signature sound. I’ve transcribed bits of Wes’s D Natural Blues—there’s so much in there to chew on—every aspect: very specific and funky syncopations that are so subtle you can easily miss what he’s actually playing; lots of skipwise motion that to me doesn’t come easy because my brain is so locked into the idea of scales and scale fragments. There’s something unique about the duration of notes in Wes’s swing feel. Somehow it sounds sort of staccato and legato at the same time. As great as many of us think he is, I think he’s still underrated.

[christianm77]

Just a quick comment on one small point.

G natural minor G A Bb C D Eb F
G harmonic minor G A Bb C D Eb Gb
G melodic minor G A Bb C D E Gb
G dorian G A Bb C D E F

So, 5 notes are common to all four.

Then, you can have an Eb or an E. An F or a Gb.

All four possible permutations are represented.

Just seems to me that it's easier to think, which 6th, which 7th, than all four scale names. Or better yet, learn the sounds and pick the 6 and 7 by ear.

Just to explicate - those first five notes are what we can call the ‘essence’ of a minor scale 1 2 b3 4 5

I’d actually suggest just improvising on these notes for a bit. A lot of lines and melodies heavily feature just these 5 notes. The are basic, vanilla notes, although the 4th has quite an interesting vibe to it,
more bluesy.

The upper part of the scale can then be employed to ‘taste.’ For instance b7 is a sort of neutral sound. 6th is very energised but not dissonant. b6 is very dissonant. 7th is intriguing and ‘jazzy.’

[christianm77]

Have you ever checked out Garrison Fewell’s triad books? Wes didn’t limit himself to triads but those GF exercises opened my ears up a bit to recognize that triad sound in lots of what I hear as Wes signature sound. I’ve transcribed bits of Wes’s D Natural Blues—there’s so much in there to chew on—every aspect: very specific and funky syncopations that are so subtle you can easily miss what he’s actually playing; lots of skipwise motion that to me doesn’t come easy because my brain is so locked into the idea of scales and scale fragments. There’s something unique about the duration of notes in Wes’s swing feel. Somehow it sounds sort of staccato and legato at the same time. As great as many of us think he is, I think he’s still underrated.

Absolutely! To my ears, one thing that Wes has that actually not many guitar players have is a really strong rhythmic negative space in his playing. It’s very specific how long his notes and chords last for and when he cuts them off with the left hand. This helps with a sense of the swing.

For example, you can practice playing quarter notes but stopping each one on the swung upbeat exactly. Swing the silence as well as the notes.

This is more like the way a horn player hears? I wonder if most guitarists only hear the fronts of the notes?