JGBE Virtual Jam (Round 9) - Dolphin Dance

**lawson-stone** · 03-18-2021, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by PickingMyEars

Does anyone actually own that Jimmy Raney record or the Howard Roberts one?

They came up on AllMusic and I gave them a listen... damn they sound good.

Then I wanted to get the records... nope.

There were 2 Howard Roberts tracks. One was The Magic Band II, the other on The Real Howard Roberts. I think they are on iTunes.

There is also a track by Calvin Keys that is really nice, as well as one by Larry Coryell which I have not heard.

**christianm77** · 03-18-2021, 11:49 AM

Ok at the moment I am leaning towards

X 5 4 3 6 x
x 3 6 3 4 3

in those bars (assuming there’s a bass)

I think if I carry on at this long enough I will eventually go yeah it’s Bb13b9/Eb Amaj7#5/Eb BFD lol.

but it’s not the destination it’s the journey haha. Having fun with this one, having written it off as not my sort of tune for years. Very subtle and well written composition and it can swing hard if you want it to.

I feel like it’s some sort of harmonic Rorschach inkblot. It’s always good for my ears to check out Herbie voicings. Iris was fun for this too.

Now I need to get a backing with bass and drums a bit faster than Sunnybass....

**lawson-stone** · 03-18-2021, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Ok at the moment I am leaning towards

X 5 4 3 6 x
x 3 6 3 4 3

in those bars (assuming there’s a bass)

I think if I carry on at this long enough I will eventually go yeah it’s Bb13b9/Eb Amaj7#5/Eb BFD lol.

but it’s not the destination it’s the journey haha. Having fun with this one, having written it off as not my sort of tune for years. Very subtle and well written composition and it can swing hard if you want it to.

I feel like it’s some sort of harmonic Rorschach inkblot. It’s always good for my ears to check out Herbie voicings. Iris was fun for this too.

Now I need to get a backing with bass and drums a bit faster than Sunnybass....

I feel badly that here at the end, I'm getting interested in this tune and beginning to want to learn it, but we have to move on. I know the advanced players want to move on, but I'd love to give another week to this one.

**christianm77** · 03-18-2021, 12:10 PM

Oh I dunno. I desperately want to go back and do a half decent version of Nica’s Dream. I think you can go as deep as you like into a tune, so I can’t see anything wrong with continuing to post on the relevant threads?

**TOMMO** · 03-18-2021, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

I can’t see anything wrong with continuing to post on the relevant threads?

Right - so far none of the jam threads have been closed....;-)

**rpjazzguitar** · 03-18-2021, 12:36 PM

According to the analysis linked to above, that chord is an Eb maj triad in the right hand, an Ab+ triad in the left hand and an Eb on the bass.

I like the Bb13b9 as xx6433 (and you can add the Eb on the A string) for the preceding chord.

For the next-to-last, trying to find good voice leading to the G7+ I ended up with 43204x, not that I'm in love with it. Probably too muddy.

I like the C triad over a much lower Eb. The E at the top of the chord sounds okay to me and leads to the Eb in the next chord.

**christianm77** · 03-18-2021, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar

According to the analysis linked to above, that chord is an Eb maj triad in the right hand, an Ab+ triad in the left hand and an Eb on the bass.

I like the Bb13b9 as xx6533 (and you can add the Eb on the A string) for the preceding chord.

For the next-to-last, trying to find good voice leading to the G7+ I ended up with 43204x, not that I'm in love with it. Probably too muddy.

I like the C triad over a much lower Eb. The E at the top of the chord sounds okay to me and leads to the Eb in the next chord.

The problem with the Bb13b9 is that the melody is F, so for a trio arrangement that complicates things if you want to voice the melody in the top part of the chord, which I do, like Tim Lerch above.

If you check out Rick Stones swinging version above he plays F then the standard x x 6 7 8 7 grip straight after. It’s one solution. x x 6 5 3 3 would also work similarly.

He then plays the top bit of the chord (the Ab+/Eb thing or whatever it is) after and does the same thing.

In a band with a horn player none of this stuff would matter because the tone colour is sufficiently different, which is kind of how it works on the record.

**PickingMyEars** · 03-18-2021, 12:47 PM

I think we need a new tune.

Love this tune.

But we might get into "analysis paralysis" if we venture too much further.

Love the Lionel Loueke version--but I love what he does in general.

I LOVE BALLADS. I don't care if they aren't cool to play on jam sessions. Nothing cuts through your heart like great playing over a ballad. Nothing melts you quite like hearing a Ballad sung JUST RIGHT. For me, that's Lady Day. I tear up everytime I hear Billie Holiday sing a ballad. I love Sarah Vaugh, but Billie Holiday makes me cry. No overstatement

**christianm77** · 03-18-2021, 12:49 PM

I didn’t check out Loueke yet.... the alternate tuning thing puts me off looking to him for voicing solutions but that’s probably silly and I should just listen to the dude playing it awesomely.

**ragman1** · 03-18-2021, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

I think if I carry on at this long enough I will eventually go

Bonkers?

**mr. beaumont** · 03-18-2021, 01:19 PM

I tell ya what, I'll do things a little differently this week. I won't go first. I'll put the tune up in the next hour or two, just gotta make my little graphic

I'll try doing a take tonight though, house should be pretty quiet. I mean, by Matz household standards.

**christianm77** · 03-19-2021, 01:45 PM

Final version, solo guitar

Think I've learned this one. Great call Jeff, think I've had a lot of fun. Onto Idle Moments.

**wzpgsr** · 03-19-2021, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

I feel badly that here at the end, I'm getting interested in this tune and beginning to want to learn it, but we have to move on. I know the advanced players want to move on, but I'd love to give another week to this one.

I’ll keep working at it. It’s been a good exercise just listening to the tune a lot and learning the melody. I really didn’t get it at all when we first started on this last week. Despite having heard the tune lots, I’d never really paid attention to it. Last week I started paying attention to it and couldn’t make sense of it. After a week with it, I have some sense of the “logic” of the harmony, and I’m starting to hear my way through the changes a bit. Lots to learn about slash chords and not thinking about them so much as discrete chords but rather subtle shifts in color over a common tone.

**lawson-stone** · 03-19-2021, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by wzpgsr

I’ll keep working at it. It’s been a good exercise just listening to the tune a lot and learning the melody. I really didn’t get it at all when we first started on this last week. Despite having heard the tune lots, I’d never really paid attention to it. Last week I started paying attention to it and couldn’t make sense of it. After a week with it, I have some sense of the “logic” of the harmony, and I’m starting to hear my way through the changes a bit. Lots to learn about slash chords and not thinking about them so much as discrete chords but rather subtle shifts in color over a common tone.

I still can't figure what's going on in the harmony, so I'm trying to focus on the melody. When I hear the tune, it's breathtakingly beautiful. But when I play the chords, it sounds like a composition exercise that went bad. So I'm focusing on the melody at the moment, though obviously, with ref. to the chords.

**TOMMO** · 03-20-2021, 04:01 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

I still can't figure what's going on in the harmony. When I hear the tune, it's breathtakingly beautiful. But when I play the chords, it sounds like a composition exercise that went bad.

Same goes for me...

**mr. beaumont** · 03-20-2021, 09:40 AM

Telling ya, you gotta find one strong note on those "weird chords" and start there.

**PickingMyEars** · 03-20-2021, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

There were 2 Howard Roberts tracks. One was The Magic Band II, the other on The Real Howard Roberts. I think they are on iTunes.

There is also a track by Calvin Keys that is really nice, as well as one by Larry Coryell which I have not heard.

Never really got into the first Magic Band recording. That said, just noticed that it includes a Seattle native wild man--Pete Christlieb--Mr. Speed Demon himself.

**wzpgsr** · 03-21-2021, 11:28 PM

At the expense of practicing hardly anything else this week, I feel like I’m starting to make some progress improvising over this tune—things don’t completely fall apart now until after the G pedal stuff. I’ll keep at it until I can make it through the whole tune without looking at the chart then post a recording.

**ragman1** · 03-22-2021, 03:52 AM

You know, Herbie Hancock is still alive. Why doesn't someone just ask him what his changes were for this tune? Or some of the other members of the band? I think all this guessing and microanalysing is completely bananas.

Somewhere there's got to be a notebook or something that spells it out. What happened in the studio?

Did they always do it exactly the same every time? I highly doubt it but they must obviously have had some basic template they were all using otherwise they couldn't have played it.

And trying to distill what a whole band of different instruments was doing into one chord is never going to be satisfactory. So the whole thing's mad anyway. Just get a playable version and play it. Keep it simple - without over simplifying it - and let's get through it! And then put it to bed and move on.

Life's too short, man.

**grahambop** · 03-22-2021, 05:32 AM

Originally Posted by ragman1

You know, Herbie Hancock is still alive. Why doesn't someone just ask him what his changes were for this tune? Or some of the other members of the band? I think all this guessing and microanalysing is completely bananas.

No guessing, the changes I posted are correct, I used my ears to check the record.

Why don’t you ask Herbie if you’re so concerned about it!

**christianm77** · 03-22-2021, 05:40 AM

I know this will fall on deaf ears from certain members, but I’m a slow learner. Some people enjoy listening to music closely and using this as a process for getting deeper into music.

I think the question shifted more to ‘what is a satisfying simplification of this chord to a guitar arrangement?’ and I think ones ears and taste have to be the guiding factor here. Again deciding whether or not one likes say an E next to the melody in a chord is not so much analysis as, how can I put this? Oh yes, being a musician.

You can hear for yourself that different guitarists have found different solutions. The one I came up with I would never have chosen if I simply went from the chord symbols so I’m glad I took the time.

Anyway players are at different levels, and choosing different goals and that’s cool.

Some are happy to play over an Aebersold from a lead sheet and leave it at that. Others are doing solo arrangements. It depends on what your goals are. For my part I wanted to learn the tune by heart and to a level where I would be happy playing it on a gig, and on most gigs I play I am the chordal instrument.

**ragman1** · 03-22-2021, 05:43 AM

I was just listening to Chet Baker doing it. He found some notes, no big deal, and he's the famous Chet Baker. If I, or someone here, played this there'd be the usual platitudes and that would be that, no great shakes, right? You bet.