The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Time for a waltz...a short but not so easy one.

    JGBE Virtual Jam (Round 6) - Night Dreamer-1613581023270-jpg



    This one was very tough for me. This is not a "the correct note is only one fret away" tune.

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  3. #2

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    Great tune... And great take to bring us into round 6, Mr. B

    A lot really crappy backing tracks if you want to solo over it.

    This one comes close to the groove on the album:



    Trick with a modern waltz like this or anything Wes is that 4 feel against 2 measures of 3/4

    ONE and two AND three and ONE two AND three and

    Try it. You often hear this in the drums. Wes was very to this as well. Peter Farrell hipped me to this in a video on how Wes feels 3/4 and 6/8. Peter has some great videos on feel and groove

  4. #3

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    Yes! Though Farrell's way of counting doesn't work for my brain.

    I'm a TRIP-l et-and TRIP l et-and kinda guy.

    Jazz pocket is all about feeling 6 on 4 and 4 on 6.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Yes! Though Farrell's way of counting doesn't work for my brain.

    I'm a TRIP-l et-and TRIP l et-and kinda guy.

    Jazz pocket is all about feeling 6 on 4 and 4 on 6.
    I found it easier to start with a waltz and play the chords in dotted quarters.

    that's easy enough to hear and feel. When you get them both in mind, double up on the dotted quarters (dotted eighths, but don't think about that, just double time it).

  6. #5

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    I was pretty certain it would be a waltz this time but it looks interesting.

    For those (like me) who don't know it:

    JGBE Virtual Jam (Round 6) - Night Dreamer-n-dreamer-jpg

    Jeff - does this RB sheet pass the test for you? Chords okay?

    Here's the original in any case. It's the and-1 2 3 that does it. And the head's repeated twice (for Alter) :-)


  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    I was pretty certain it would be a waltz this time but it looks interesting.

    For those (like me) who don't know it:

    JGBE Virtual Jam (Round 6) - Night Dreamer-n-dreamer-jpg

    Jeff - does this RB sheet pass the test for you? Chords okay?

    Here's the original in any case. It's the and-1 2 3 that does it. And the head's repeated twice (for Alter) :-)

    That'll work.

    You'll see, its not a "follow the changes" tune, really.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    You'll see, its not a "follow the changes" tune, really.
    I bet :-)

    I don't think I'll change the rhythm in the middle...

  9. #8

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    I might have to post another one if the balance ain't right.

    Really hard to gauge, one backing track is too loud another is too soft...

    And I can't wake up my toddler daughter upstairs

    Anyway, hopefully you can all hear some (headphones might help with this take)


  10. #9

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    Why you guys choose such weird tunes lol... Why not The Jitterbug Waltz for instance? Beautiful waltz....This kind of tunes you just wanna play over and hope to survive. But ok, fkit, I'll try.

  11. #10

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    This one is better balanced...

    Plus, Mr. B might like the title



    I got a pickguard and changed strings. Might be a little clangy, but once they are broken in... love this weird mixed string set of mine

  12. #11

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    I do love to Jitter n' Bugs:


  13. #12

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    This is the Comins GCS-1, ME80 (adding reverb and nothing else) and Little Jazz. IRealpro backing track played, not quite loud enough, thru a KC150.

    A few words about process. I'm curious about how others approach a tune and I figured, I'll go first.

    I don't recall hearing or playing this tune. So, I listened to what I think is the original version on youtube and I got the RealBook chart. I played the chords a few times (the piano voicings in the chart turned out to be playable, with some stretching, on guitar). I tried scatting a solo, but didn't come up with much. So, I took a look at the chords.

    The Gmaj7 Fm7 Ebmaj7 Dalt, sounded bluesy to me, but that Gmaj7 (rather than Gm there) keeps it from being Hit The Road Jack. It occured to me to think about it as all I V. The idea there was that the Gmaj7 is the tonic and all the others are subs for Dalt. I considered Fm7. F Ab C Eb, all within Dalt. Then Eb G Bb D -- the G isn't in Dalt but I'm generally more willing to adjust a note or two by ear than to learn a new scale.

    I ended up thinking this progression is G tonal center then Ab tonal center. And, what you hear is based on the idea that all I needed to do was play on G and then go up a half step. That freed me up a bit to focus on trying to make a melody.

    Next up is a ii V in Db. I did that by ear, but, thinking about it, since I was in Ab, the issue is lowering the G to Gb. That gives the b3 on the ii and the b7 on the V.

    My ear couldn't really make much sense of the E13sus and F13sus. The first one is E A B D C#. A tonal center sounded ok. The next chord is another "half step up" change and I didn't think of a clever way to play it. It occurred to me that the tune is about half step changes.

    Then back to the original 2 bar sequence (with an error in the Irealpro chart which I couldn't figure out how to fix, so I left it -- it's not very audible.

    I'm not happy with what I recorded but I had to admit to myself that I can't really play it much better. I'm working on being more precise with the sound of the instrument, the timing of the notes and how clearly I articulate the notes. All of this is a work in progress.


  14. #13

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    RP,

    Can I challenge you to identify elements in your solo that you liked?

    I heard some hip stuff, but identifying your strengths is part of the journey.

    Be specific. We sweat the details when it's stuff we don't like in our playing.

    Sweat the details of what you already like--isolate those nuances--and build on that as well.

  15. #14

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    rp -

    I've got as far as the melody so far and I haven't got the twiddles quite right but they'll do, probably. I'm normally quite quick at scoping out tunes but this one'll take getting into. And I'm loathe to commit myself till I think I've got it. Or something like it. Sax players we're not :-)

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by PickingMyEars
    RP,

    Can I challenge you to identify elements in your solo that you liked?

    I heard some hip stuff, but identifying your strengths is part of the journey.

    Be specific. We sweat the details when it's stuff we don't like in our playing.

    Sweat the details of what you already like--isolate those nuances--and build on that as well.
    I'd have a much easier time listing the stuff I don't like, but here goes.

    Much of the solo has the 8th notes played, to my ear, in time. That is, neither rushed nor behind. I work on that, so when it comes out okay, I'm happy. I'm aware that there were some flubs, but that's not what this post is about.

    I'm always trying to put emotion into a solo, and I often hear that in rapidly ascending non-scalar lines. There are a couple in there.

    Last chorus gets sparse. I'm always trying to use silence as a voice in a solo and to avoid noodling. I'm happy when I succeed at that. It creates a more singable line, which is another goal.

    Thanks for listening and thanks for the challenge to do this.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    Why you guys choose such weird tunes lol... Why not The Jitterbug Waltz for instance? Beautiful waltz....This kind of tunes you just wanna play over and hope to survive. But ok, fkit, I'll try.
    Wayne tunes are often easier than they first appear. Often study of the melody reveals more than the study of the chords

    Bill Frisell likes Jitterbug Waltz a lot. I’ve played it quite a few times on gigs. The head is quite tricky on guitar!

  18. #17

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    Oh it’s a short duration chaconne. Never noticed that before

  19. #18

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    Sounds like a tough one..

    Jeff - I like the bluesy lines you put in there.

    rp: nice melodic playing especially at the beginning - makes it sound easier than it probably is.

  20. #19

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    OK, so notice how Wayne gets a lot of mileage from simple materials.

    We take a whole G natural minor scale
    G A Bb C D Eb F G

    Chop it in half at the fifth
    G A Bb C D Eb - melody
    G F Eb D - Bass

    Write a melody that goes up and down stepwise starting on the third in quarters against a step wise bass in dotted quarters.

    Now - write a picardy third - B instead of Bb as the first note

    Soloing wise - We move between the G major and minor keys

    It's all in G minor except for that first chord, until we get to the big II-V and the surprise move to the tritone sub chord E7sus4, up a half step and back into the chaconne again. But you have two bars each on that stuff.

  21. #20

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    Also Fsus4 = Eb/F, so we are back into the home tonality of Eb/Gm

    In other words, the G major and E7sus4 are the chromatic chords in this progression. Everything else is diatonic to Gm.

  22. #21

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    In fact I would play the first section as this

    G (break) Cm7 Bb7 (Bo7) --> G

    Or

    G (break) Am7b5 D7b9 --> G

    So basically a bit like Night and Day but faster and rhythmically displaced.

    Wayne tunes are like logic puzzles. There's almost always a solution and it is almost always fair.

    But often the best way to solve them is to listen to what Wayne himself plays on them.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar

    Not a bad start at all! There's this snakey descending thing you do about 1:30 that I'm definitely stealing.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by PickingMyEars
    This one is better balanced...

    Plus, Mr. B might like the title



    I got a pickguard and changed strings. Might be a little clangy, but once they are broken in... love this weird mixed string set of mine
    Lol, "Day Dreamer," perhaps.

    Your posts are almost like an audio diary, which I dig...it's gutsy, putting it out there. I can literally hear you figuring out the tune as you go. In your first take, your first chorus, it was like you were testing out a few notes, to see where they worked and didn't...and then in your second, you start crafting real melody.

  25. #24

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    Early thoughts...

    This tune is sparking some good nuts and bolts conversation, which is cool. I figured it would.

    Why not "Jitterbug Waltz?" Well, the whole point of this jam session (even though we did a Parker tune already) was to explore jazz that was a little less...1940's.

    My approach was similar to what a few other people figured out.

    The A section is G blues. You gotta watch that third a little...I kinda feel the "third" in that section of the tune lives between m3 and M3, so to speak.

    There's that little ii V that you need to be aware of, but really we're just slipping up a half step there, briefly.

    Then the 7sus chords. Ok, here's how I often hear those chords...they're ALL OVER jazz from the 60's and on, really...

    E7sus... so that's E A B D, right? These always seem to suggest pentatonics to me...and because the A section was G blues, I figured why not stick with that idea...B minor pentatonic to C minor pent.

    There's some other notes that work in there too, the 9th added to the pentatonic, for sure (so E13sus?) for example.

    I think the tricky part of a tune like this is there's really a limited amount of notes that sound good to hang on at any given time.

  26. #25

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    Chris'77's post really simplifies the tune, if you get past the Jean-Luc Picardy stuff

    The first two solos I posted were my best effort to sound a little more like Wayne Shorter--conjure up that mojo. Always love the way that he solos. He's incredibly melodic, rhythmic, thematic, and dynamic--you hear the drama in everything he plays. He says the most with the least about of melodic/harmonic material--which is a hell of a lot harder than it seems.

    Next up, I wanna dive into Lee Morgan's solo. I have 15 Lee Morgan led albums--they called him Morgan indeed. He's a fire cracker. Definitely rhythmic, but more funky. His lines here are busier than Wayne's, but non-the-less powerful.

    And finally, don't you love "Etc's" solo McCoy loved to play on Blue Note even though he was mostly an Impulse guy at the time, me thinks. McCoy, what can you say about McCoy Tyner that hasn't already been said. Coltrane loved his playing. Hey Reggie and Elvin--aren't you supposed to be playing with Coltrane? That rhythm section... to get that rhythm section for one of your first albums, ya have to know your stuff (not very first, for that you have to dig Wayne playing bebop--also fine as satin).

    RP, I really enjoyed your 8th note feel throughout. I heard more of the harmonic movement and melody in your solo than in mine. And you played the melody really grooving like--I tried to outro the melody on my second take and failed.

    Mr. B, damn. Bluesy as all hell. Sounds as if Albert King befriended Wayne and got on the album. Those blues guys were no joke. Most of the uptown folk played with very hip horn sections. That said, B's solo still sounds like Wayne and describes the tune. All about that build