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  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    Here's my first run at the tune+improv chorus. This tune was new for me, though I'd heard it before, so my phrasing on the tune is possibly not as natural as it should be since I mainly read it from the lead sheet. Good backing track through from Hal Leonard.

    I like how the ES165 sounds through the Polytone MBII. Just sitting here playing it feels good. I hope some of that comes over in the clip.

    Advice and wisdom is appreciated.

    This one sounds quite good. Improvising over something new can force you to simplify down to what you know confidently how to do, so you just play without too much thought. The results can be surprisingly good. That's all I got for wisdom. For advice, I'd say add more of just blowing over tunes to your routine and don't worry about whether it sounds as together as the stuff you arrange or transcribe, that and when in doubt play the blues. It almost never sounds wrong.

    John

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    Just so it has been said .. This Jam format has been a great success and definately brings something else to the table than the monthly standard thread .. Great to see spontaneous clips from what is normally very prepared monthly standard players
    This is what I always say- most important in jazz is improvisation.

  4. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    This is what I always say- most important in jazz is improvisation.
    100% agree kris. Improvisation is what got me interested in jazz and it's what keeps me interested.

  5. #104

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    Finally got a chance to do this late last night, everyone was asleep (!) so had to record direct with my solid-body (Ibanez Artist) to keep it quiet. Backing is BIAB.


  6. #105

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    Excellent playing and guitar sound, grahambop!

  7. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOMMO
    Excellent playing and guitar sound, grahambop!
    Thanks! I’ve had the Ibanez since 1978 but hardly ever play it now. About a year ago I found that all the pots had degraded so much that hardly any signal was being output. So I had to order replacement volume and tone pots and solder them in (just identifying the correct pots to get was quite difficult!). Anyway it seems to have worked, it sounds better now than it has done for years.

  8. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Finally got a chance to do this late last night, everyone was asleep (!) so had to record direct with my solid-body (Ibanez Artist) to keep it quiet. Backing is BIAB.

    I was hoping you'd get in. Nice angular stuff in your opening...great solo. And outstanding tone too.

  9. #108

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    Thanks, I really do like these ‘jazz original’ type tunes.

  10. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Finally got a chance to do this late last night, everyone was asleep (!) so had to record direct with my solid-body (Ibanez Artist) to keep it quiet. Backing is BIAB.

    That's the stuff! Oh yeah. Gotta try playing on those low registers.

  11. #110

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    We need lure Dutchbopper into this thread before we close it out.

  12. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Finally got a chance to do this late last night, everyone was asleep (!) so had to record direct with my solid-body (Ibanez Artist) to keep it quiet. Backing is BIAB.

    Really well done! I listened to it three times. That is the kind of playing that I hope to achieve one day!

  13. #112

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    Graham -

    Useless, completely useless :-)

  14. #113

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    And Christian!

    I'll have week 2 up tonight. Brevity is where it's at...no planning, we are gonna get these tunes OUT THERE.

    Got a midtempo tune with great changes in mind this week...nice short form too. Very accessible, but not a cliche chord progression.

  15. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Finally got a chance to do this late last night, everyone was asleep (!) so had to record direct with my solid-body (Ibanez Artist) to keep it quiet. Backing is BIAB.

    Great playing and great jazz articulation.This Ibanez Artist/solid-body/sounds like fat jazz box.
    Played by real jazzman.
    Jazzingly
    Kris

  16. #115

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    And.... a very nice BB background.

  17. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    Great playing and great jazz articulation.This Ibanez Artist/solid-body/sounds like fat jazz box.
    Played by real jazzman.
    Jazzingly
    Kris
    Thank you very much kris, that means a lot to me!

    Re. the guitar I just play it exactly the same way as my 175, i.e. same kind of attack and angle with the pick, and picking near the neck. It does make me think that a lot of tone is in the fingers and the pick technique. (I also have .012 flats on it, same as on my 175).

  18. #117

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    Had to make one more run at this, trying for a different feel. I kept trying to think "Jim Hall, Jim Hall, Jim Hall" but by the time it's done, we are who we are I guess! This has been fun and I'm now ready to hit the next tune.


  19. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    Had to make one more run at this, trying for a different feel. I kept trying to think "Jim Hall, Jim Hall, Jim Hall" but by the time it's done, we are who we are I guess! This has been fun and I'm now ready to hit the next tune.

    Cool, I'll take a listen to this one as well.

    Jim just so happens to have done a great version of this, with Art Farmer--have you heard it?

  20. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Cool, I'll take a listen to this one as well.

    Jim just so happens to have done a great version of this, with Art Farmer--have you heard it?
    You know I kept thinking yes, Jim Hall has done this, it's such a perfect vehicle for him, but I couldn't recall it, and I didn't have it on my iTunes library. I'll hunt for it.

  21. #120

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    have you heard it?
    I have. Absolute favorite

    Farmer/Hall on You Tube, Lawson.

  22. #121

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  23. #122

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    Okay, listened... Jim Hall is just so fresh and unpredictable. That's an amazing solo. I also realize I haven't got the best phrasing on a few passages in the melody. No more clips, but I need to tune up that melody phrasing.

  24. #123

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    Great record that, one of the first jazz LPs I bought. Got it about 1980 when it had just been released. I remember listening closely to all the solos, (not just Jim Hall’s), trying to figure out what they were doing!

    It’s quite likely that the way I hear the melody of Whisper Not comes from listening to that record a lot back in the day.

  25. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Finally got a chance to do this late last night, everyone was asleep (!) so had to record direct with my solid-body (Ibanez Artist) to keep it quiet. Backing is BIAB.

    Yeah, great groove, feel, tone, and taste. Excellent version.

    John

  26. #125

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    Thanks John!

  27. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77

    Basically if you think you have to learn separate language for a m7b5 chord you don’t. I daresay you know a lot more dorian and melodic minor stuff than locrian.

    Also we have that m3 relationship as well - you can go Cm Ebm on Am7b5 D7
    Christian,
    Could you explain what you mean by" m3 relationship"?
    For me,Cm is the substitution for Em7b5 and Ebm is an upper structure on D7(b9,3,b13),what is called polytonality by superposed triads
    All the best
    Emil

  28. #127

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    I’m guessing what Christian means is for example that you can play a Cm6 chord then just move the same shape up 3 frets and repeat it. This sounds great over Am7b5 going to D7, I use it a lot.

  29. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by emilP
    Christian,
    Could you explain what you mean by" m3 relationship"?
    For me,Cm is the substitution for Em7b5 and Ebm is an upper structure on D7(b9,3,b13),what is called polytonality by superposed triads
    All the best
    Emil
    You mean Cm is a sub for Am7b5 (typo)? If not Cm6 is an inversion of Am7b5 and vice versa.

    If so, yeah, exactly that; you take the same motif on II and move it up a m3 on V. Classic bop trick. Works in major and minor. Musicians did that for years before they knew what a 'upper structure triad' was. It just sounds right. (And in fact the major version doesn't fit so well into that rationale.)

    You also see this move a lot in standards BTW - II-7 to IV-6. So now you know its a II-V in disguise :-) (Or maybe the other way around?)

    Nerd's corner: It's not really polytonality. Polytonality is more like playing in C and F# major at the same time; two independent key centres as heard in works by Poulenc etc. Vertically very dissonant, but from the perspective of the listener, may be possible to discern the superimposed keys.

    From the POV of CST there's a clear relationship between Ebm and D7, as you say, they form part of the same overall sound (although I actually do think I hear US triads independently, but that's a whole thing.)

  30. #129

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  31. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by hohoho
    Nice playing everybody!
    Here is my effort. Backing Hal Leonard Real Book Volume 2.
    @Kris: was your backing MrSunnybass?

    Great playing but... the lion is out of the cage! I mean that piano is riding in your wheels and disrupts your beautiful lines!


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  32. #131

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    Yea...the piano is a little to loud.Guitar is a very nice!

  33. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronstuff
    Nice playing and feel...a little more backing track.Guitar sounds very good.

  34. #133

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    Beautiful lyrical lines, kris!

  35. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOMMO
    Beautiful lyrical lines, kris!
    Thanks Tommo,
    I put my post to Jam Round 2.
    Best
    Kris

  36. #135

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    It’s gonna take me at least another week. It would be my first improv on something that’s not blues, I’m still not hearing all the chords and even not know them all without thinking real hard. Was planning to get to know things today, l could work of what chords I know from Birk’s Works, but cat disappeared 6.45am and just returned at 11pm. Real joy to hear and read all the posts, I’m getting heaps out of this already!


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  37. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eck
    It’s gonna take me at least another week. It would be my first improv on something that’s not blues, I’m still not hearing all the chords and even not know them all without thinking real hard. Was planning to get to know things today, l could work of what chords I know from Birk’s Works, but cat disappeared 6.45am and just returned at 11pm. Real joy to hear and read all the posts, I’m getting heaps out of this already!


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    In case this helps

    Bars 1-2 are basically the same thing as bars 3-4 except one starts with Cm and the other with Gm. Bar 5 is similar to bar 1 and then it's a i V into Dm followed by that ascending sequence of minor chords.

    So, you can play blues in Cm, followed by blues in Gm. Then, in bar 5, more blues, this time in Dm. Bars 7-8 can be played in different ways, but you can probably do okay with thinking of it as a ii V in Cm and if you play a clam, move it one fret in either direction.

    The bridge is more blues, Gm, then Dm.

  38. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    In case this helps

    Bars 1-2 are basically the same thing as bars 3-4 except one starts with Cm and the other with Gm. Bar 5 is similar to bar 1 and then it's a i V into Dm followed by that ascending sequence of minor chords.

    So, you can play blues in Cm, followed by blues in Gm. Then, in bar 5, more blues, this time in Dm. Bars 7-8 can be played in different ways, but you can probably do okay with thinking of it as a ii V in Cm and if you play a clam, move it one fret in either direction.

    The bridge is more blues, Gm, then Dm.
    Thanks. It takes me more time to hear the chords in my mind. Many songs have this progression of bars 1-2 and 3-4, but to me they work as a trap as long as I don’t get that d9 chord’s proper in my head. I found the 3 (note, is there a better word?) in that chord gives me the lead to that V which to me doesn’t sound like a V at all as it’s minor, but that’s where the f# in the Dd9 helps me hear the key change.
    Apart from that I’m learning the scales better, as I only know the Dorian (played as the Ionian starting from bass string).
    I’ve got experience composing and cannot stop myself from having to find those out-of-scale notes that make connections.
    So the big challenge is convincing myself it’s ok to play just blues scales. And to know them. Like proper instead of ear-play and a few bigger intervals.


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  39. #138

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    Honestly Eck, I think you're overthinking it.

    I say try it out and post and if anybody says something mean, I'll have them crying for their momma in one post.

  40. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eck
    Thanks. It takes me more time to hear the chords in my mind. Many songs have this progression of bars 1-2 and 3-4, but to me they work as a trap as long as I don’t get that d9 chord’s proper in my head. I found the 3 (note, is there a better word?) in that chord gives me the lead to that V which to me doesn’t sound like a V at all as it’s minor, but that’s where the f# in the Dd9 helps me hear the key change.
    Apart from that I’m learning the scales better, as I only know the Dorian (played as the Ionian starting from bass string).
    I’ve got experience composing and cannot stop myself from having to find those out-of-scale notes that make connections.
    So the big challenge is convincing myself it’s ok to play just blues scales. And to know them. Like proper instead of ear-play and a few bigger intervals.


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    If I understand you ... play bar 1 as a Cm blues lick.

    Then, think of bars 2 and 3 as a ii V im in Gm. A blues lick in Gm will work.

    Bar 4: first two beats are notated as Em7b5, which has exactly the same notes as Gm6. So, if you keep playing Gm licks, it will work.

    Bar 4: You can also look at all of bar 4 as a ii V going into the Dm in bar 5. Bm7b5 is the same as Dm6, and those D blues licks will work.

    And, you could continue playing D blues licks for bars 5-8.

    I'm not suggesting it's great music, although it could be in the hands of a melodic player.

    Bear in mind, that this is not my ultimate recommendation for how to play this tune. Rather, it's a path that is worthy, particularly for the intermediate player.

    My idea of the goal is to be able to forget about the chords/scales/arps etc, hear/feel the chords in your mind and scat-sing/play a solo to that without thinking linguistically.

  41. #140

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    Thanks Mr Beaumont and RPJAZZGUITAR! I’m getting there. Conversion between learning to keep it simple and knowing the scales. Between not getting ambitious and starting to grab an opportunity for a little arpeggio. And between getting less pain in my arms and pushing through. This is a real blessing for my learning.


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