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I played "Autumn Leaves" today with a friend. Perfect example for forward motion.
Two weeks ago i played a gig with an Nigerian singer friend, mostly reggae and a few rock tunes. I realized that reggae basslines have a lot of forward motion as well.
(Funny anecdote BTW from the one practice session the night before the gig: The singer had sent around recordings of the tunes he wanted to play a week before. We were two guitarists and I took over the role of the muted guitar doubling the bassline for most reggae tunes. The other guitarist, 20 years younger than me, asked me: "Where did you get all those tabs from? I have looked all over Youtube but haven't found anything." He couldn't believe that the bass player and me had learned the basslines by ear from listening to them a few times LOL.)
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12-06-2023 07:48 PM
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My bad. I forgot this is a NFA site.
Originally Posted by Bop Head
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This might explain. "Everything is a pickup" quote by Miles Davis. Originally Posted by buduranus2
A simple example is when a "pickup" creates forward motion to the chord tone on beat one and then another "pickup" creates forward motion to the chord tone on beat three.
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Out of curiosity … if the line isn’t driving toward beat one … where exactly is it driving?
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Originally Posted by buduranus2
Fun is always allowed: "So Miles was a pickup artist?" Originally Posted by GuyBoden
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I gots to say... ending on one is like, well I won't say, but it's what many amateurs do.
If we're talking about solos etc... it's almost rude to take your solo into the beginning of the next chorus.
Yea not always etc... Maybe the and of 4, which can be the anticipation of beat 1... but it works a lot better when your solo has an ending and leaves a little room for the next soloist, interlude etc...
But as I remember... Hal's basic concept for Forward Motion is just standard Strong Weak organization. And using both harmonic and rhythmic aspect to create or imply. Subdividing on different levels
When we play... it tends to be more about... the implying aspects. And typically your rhythmic skills are much more important than melodic and harmonic aspects.
It's like how most don't really understand Chord scale concepts .... it's not theory, it's just a great source for references and how to harmonically organize them.... rhythmically, melodically and harmonically.
I guess where I'm going is.... if you play jazz, it's common practice and standard practice at least as a starting Reference. Like... implying something as compared to pounding it out.
I'm pretty sure Hal picked up a lot of his education from Pomery... and playing in his BB. He was at Berklee in the late 50's... Dawson was also in the early Pomeroy bands... I know Alan Dawson was rhythmically Godlike. I was lucky to study with him in the early 70's... he fixed my problems...LOL And I though I was hot shit... more like stupid kid.
Anyway.... Hal knows and can play.
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For sure landing squarely on beat one is … well … square. But there’s a language for that downbeat resolution that then tags away and keeps moving or wraps up somewhere in the middle of the bar. Originally Posted by Reg
And I guess I didn’t have the same experience of playing over the barline in solos. I remember in New York it was super jarring to me at first when I was trading fours or eights at a session and EVERYONE played over a beat or two into the next persons four. I got super lost the first couple times. In hindsight I think that’s because that’s where the phrase ends. It doesn’t start on beat one of bar one and end in the middle of bar four. It starts in the middle of bar one and then ends at the beginning of the next persons four.Last edited by pamosmusic; 12-07-2023 at 09:19 PM.
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Actually thinking on it, I do that for solos too. I’m kind of in the habit of just resting for the first few measures of a solo for that reason. Someone is probably wrapping up their last phrase. The audience probably clapping for them. I want to give the bass and drums a minute to come down from wherever they were.
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Here's a transcript of part of a Hal Galper solo.
Hal’s solo on “All The Things You Aren’t” | Hal Galper
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Yea Peter...it's done a lot. And trading is more of a time and tempo thing.. trading 4's at least generally and depending on ensemble. Typically ... when with drums your trying to have a joint conversation or whatever you want to label as. Anyway your usually rhythmically hitting + of 4 or 1 depending on who's calling or answering etc....
What's implied is two or more players trying to perform as one. At least most of the time. Obviously you can do whatever one wants... but results are generally the point, not being out there. If the audience can't feel or hear what's going on... or at least implied... maybe it's not working.
When the ensemble is still playing the tune and soloist are trading over that... yea anything can work... (I guess). I mean playing over bar lines and playing any polyrhythms or cross-rhythms etc.. is cool... but it still needs to imply...
I don't get lost... when playing but I do hear lots of other players getting lost...and we as a rhythm section have to make choices... does this player know what he's doing... Or is he lost...LOL. Amateur players generally aren't that good... so we make it right or feel right. That's just part of our job.
But sure a phrase can start and end anywhere... and that's part of understanding how to use... strong/ week or gravity or what ever we want to call the implied feel and shape of what we're playing.
Where your performing also makes a difference, how may choruses are you taking.
Yea Guy... read through the solo... nice. Playing changes need adjusting or additional changes LOL. Was the Db7#9 from the intro or interlude...
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You're a better man than I. Originally Posted by Reg
Sometimes I feel like I’ve only gotten better at covering it up.
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I don't understand the purpose of the Db7#9 chord in bar 35 of the transcription, maybe it's an error, isn't it usually AbMaj7 in ATTYA. Originally Posted by Reg
Also, the lines in the transcription contain many super-impositions.
"Many solos combine both playing the changes and super-imposing them as in the above solo. I’ve noted the basic changes of the song above the bars but, at times, depart from them. " Hal Galper
Hal’s solo on “All The Things You Aren’t” | Hal Galper
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I don’t know the recording but the intro usually has the Db7 to C7 vamp. Usually with the sharp 9. Could be he’s playing the solo into that vamp. Sometimes people will throw that in between soloists or something. Not sure what it is here Originally Posted by GuyBoden
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