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Hey Christian... thanks for the kid things... they shaped my like and made many choices for me...yada yada
Anyway... take a tune, any tune, one you like. record yourself soloing ... take two 4 bar sections.... what you hear as the best and what you don't like, not wrong notes just doesn't sound that great.
Then voice those 4 bar solo phrases out with 5 part sax section... you could add a bass line.
I've been doing this for 40 years... really. The process really cleaned up my ears... not that I don't still play shit and screw everything up all the time... I really like being the edge of crash and burn, when I can.
(I'm not implying your ears need cleaning) lol. Back in the 70's we were into that super sax thing... arranging existing solos...
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03-24-2020 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by pingu
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
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Originally Posted by Reg
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
or Gm into Bbm
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Originally Posted by hohoho
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Originally Posted by djg
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Originally Posted by djg
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Originally Posted by christianm77
to me they are "bebop gestures" organized in minor. it's just his personal way to spin lines. it's almost like pretending not to voice-lead if you know what i mean. but you can't convert to martino-minor if you cant tell a II chord from a VI chord. which makes it a dangerous concept for beginners
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
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Originally Posted by christianm77
‘Gm stuff’
‘Bbm stuff’ etc
im not particularly conscious of
which min scale i’m using
it’s just min stuff
im not saying i’m right to do that
its just what works best for me
if Martino does that too ie ‘topics’
then that very validating , thanks
he sure can play !
that Oleo on 12 string is phenomenal to me
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Originally Posted by djg
There are quite a few to observe here (not all the same key but that shouldn’t be a big obstacle):
I’m partial to this one, because it has some nice “wrong” notes in it.
Here’s the whole thing:
alone-together-pat-martino.pdf
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Originally Posted by bengruven
bar 22 is actually Am into A7. so the only slightly odd note is the passing note F#.
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Originally Posted by djg
That being said, I think there is more to be learned from that solo than any variant of CST is ever going to get you to.
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Originally Posted by bengruven
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Originally Posted by christianm77
Take, for example, a tune as simple as All of Me. Cmaj then goes to E7. You can outline that change by moving the G to G#. You don't have to. You might find a line that allows you to play G as the #9 over E7, but if you are trying to play a simple, straightforward, non-challenging line, G over E7 may be an ill fit. Chord then changes to A7. You can still think about being in C tonal center, but now you have to move the C to C#. You could play C, but the same considerations apply. When the D7 moves to G7, the F# is going to be an ill fit. You even have to consider how the octave you choose for the note affects the fit.
Doing it this way requires that you know the fingerboard and you know the notes in the chords you use, both instantly. It doesn't mesh perfectly with what seems to be a common way players learn to cover chords -- which, apparently, involves learning fingering patterns and playing out of them. I could be wrong about that since I'm not speaking from my own experience in making this statement. Of course, over time, different approaches can lead to the same goal.
Back to All of Me. Alternatively, you could decide to play 5th mode A harm min over the E7, and 5th mode D melodic minor over the A7, etc. which amounts to exactly the same thing, but with Greek names.
Andre Bush, since passed, advocated a system of 12 notes, all equal. Everybody else makes judgements about quality of fit.
The advantage of thinking this way is that you focus on the voice leading. C Ionian to A Harmonic Minor changes one note. I think it's worthwhile to think about what that movement is. If someone learns that using the Greek names, that's fine. I learned it by tonal center and adjustments.
As far as hearing my playing goes, I've posted a bunch of mp3s.Last edited by rpjazzguitar; 03-24-2020 at 02:57 PM.
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Originally Posted by bengruven
G Dom on E7 gives you the #9...
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Originally Posted by christianm77
theory is just a way to organize language.
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Originally Posted by djg
But I do think it's illustrative that I could sit down and look at the Martino solo from the perspective of Barry Harris when I know for a fact he doesn't think that way.
I was think that Martino might think of a sort of minor bebop thing - dorian or mel minor with an added major 3rd.
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Originally Posted by djg
You shift down a fret and play the three notes in reverse.
All of Me - A7 on measure #28 (9th?)
Today, 10:24 AM in Theory