Pat Martino - The Nature of the Guitar

[sully75]

I just bought this Truefire Course (it's on sale right now) and I'm really into it. I remember previewing it a couple of years ago and thinking it just was wacky but now, so far at least, it makes total sense.

It sort of answers a basic frustration that I had but couldn't explain. You can't think of the guitar like a piano, because it's really more like 6 pianos with 6 keys (half steps) each stacked vertically, going up vertically like a guitar is tuned. It makes sense to me now why thinking like a pianist doesn't exactly work.

The diminished/augmented thing also makes perfect, irrefutable sense, just sort of like the caged system does...you can ignore it or decide that it's not for you, but it remains there all along.

I know there's a study group for his book already but this seems like different and more updated material. Anyone interested in a separate study group for the videos?

I'm going to write some exercises for myself based on the beginning of the videos, I'll post them.

[rlrhett]

I would be very interested in concrete exercises from that video. I found it very difficult to get anything useful out of it. The moonbeam transcendental stuff Pat M incessantly talks about feels contrived to me and hard to sift through to find anything real. But I admit to liking his playing, so I’m open to any insight on this technique.


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[princeplanet]

How could someone, even as a young man (El Hombre in his early 20's!!) who played perfect "God Head" Jazz guitar, turn out to be such a wanker when it comes to discussing his playing?
Job security?? ...

[grahambop]

I have the Linear Expressions book which at least gives you some nice long lines to play which are very typical of Pat’s style. I haven’t worked through the whole book but the basic premise (as I recall) is ‘convert everything to a minor chord’ then use the lines accordingly. Which makes sense as that is often how Pat’s playing sounds to me. I don’t think there is much of the ‘mumbo-jumbo’ talk in that book.

I also have Steve Khan’s book of Pat Martino ‘early years’ transcriptions, you can probably learn a lot from that as well. I got a lot out of the first chorus of ‘Just Friends’ in that one. Steve includes some useful analysis of Pat’s devices at the front of the book, with references to examples in the solos.

I think Pat’s thinking is on a slightly different planet to the rest of us, that’s just how he is, I don’t really follow much of what he says!

[sully75]

This is the first exercise I'm working on.

picking a 3 string set and working within 5 frets (with a little wiggle room on either side).

Initially go through the cycle of 5ths with Major chords. Set a metronome slow (if this is hard for you, it is for me) at like 60bpm. On the first beat call out and play the augmented chord associated with the major chord. Hold that chord for four beats. On the 5th beat play and name the major chord.

So initially on the 1st beat say "C augmented" and play C augmented. On the 5th beat say C major and play the C major chord.

For additional work, on the third beat call out the note that will be dropped. "dropping G# to G natural".

Repeat around the cycle "F augmented" and play F augmented Etc

Stay within the 5 fret area, if as you switch from augmented to major it takes you out of the box that's ok, just keep all your augmented roots within the 5 fret area.

Same thing for the minor chords. Call out the augmented chord (which will be a minor third from the augmented chord you want).

"Eb augmented for C minor" on the first beat. on the 3rd beat "moving B natural to C" on the 5th beat "C minor".


In that way you will be able to play all major and minor triads in a 5 fret area at a tempo (slow) and know how they are related to the augmented chord.

I made a scrambler also. Same deal, same metronome thing. Call out and play the augmented chord that the major or minor chord is derived from, name the note that's moving and then call out and play the new chord. If you get an augmented chord, you get an extra 4 bars to rest your brain (since no change is needed). I might pull out the augmented chords from the exercise.

I have the same thing for the diminished chords but haven't used it yet.

Let me know if this is of any value. Seems like it might be, to me at least, but who knows. I don't find it easy, anyway.

Pat Martino Aug Triad and Diminished Scrambler - Google Sheets

Pat Martino Aug Triad and Diminished Scrambler - Sheet1.pdf

[MarkRhodes]

How could someone, even as a young man (El Hombre in his early 20's!!) who played perfect "God Head" Jazz guitar, turn out to be such a wanker when it comes to discussing his playing?
Job security?? ...

People who studied with Pat decades ago said he was talking the same way then. I had a teacher who had cassette tapes of lessons with Pat. He played me bits of them.
Me: "What the hell is he talking about?"
Teacher: "I still don't know."

But man, Pat Martino can play!

He learned by sound alone, which is great. But it can be difficult to explain to others.

[bako]

Sometime around 1971/1972, I took 3 lessons with Pat .
Yes, he had all these esoteric tendencies back then. My impression
was that he was striving to forge a unified theory of music, guitar, life and nature. Pat is a unique character with a strong quest for knowledge and a very personal take on things. There are teachers committed to unravelling the mystery of what the next pivotal steps should be and then there are others that simply share their
worldview. It is all good in my opinion.

[princeplanet]

and he always speaks so highly of you...

... hehe... and he's so lucky to have such staunch defenders like yourself...

[wolflen]

Considering Martinos experience with a brain aneurysm..and his apparent full recovery from it his telling of how he had to "relearn" to play again..
I think every artist that delves to the core of thier art realizes that there is "something else" beyond their own ability that guides them to persue
the art beyond most peoples ability or interest..

Many top musicians have shared a spiritual aspect with their music..Coltrane, McLaughlin, Corea and others ..and I count myself, to a degree, in that description
When I studied with Ted Greene he would say things like "go beyond" the study of how chords are related and you may find another aspect of music to explore and
yes when I immersed myself with the study of diminished and augmented theory and harmony there were insights that changed how I approached my playing-
seeing many chord relations as one thing rather than a patchwork of "one chord at a time"..

In saying this I understand Martinos approach and I suppose his fustration in trying to "share" or teach it in a manner that most can understand..

For me a chord progression or any part of it-in any key-can be several other harmonic implied structures being expressed at the same time.
a major chord can be expressed as a minor or altered dominant chord within the harmonic and melodic framwork of a tune and bring new energy to it
and realize that one chord is part of a chain of chords that are related and can be intermixed with their voicings and related scales

a prime example of this type of thinking is the Augmented scale..a six note scale that has six related chords embedded in it-three major and three minor- and each note of the scale can be the root of its own augmented triad
(the diminished scale has many more chords embedded in it of major, minor, dominant, and altered types of them and can be used in several symmetrical patterns)

Martinos playing and teaching/sharing his insights in this kind of thing requires alot of study/practice and the drive to push yourself beyond your limits..that is "ok I can play a diminished scale"
but did you find the two tritone scales in it and ways to use them..

Now I realize many dont need or want to know this kind of stuff..but..for those that do..

enjoy the wonder...

[voyage]

How could someone, even as a young man (El Hombre in his early 20's!!) who played perfect "God Head" Jazz guitar, turn out to be such a wanker when it comes to discussing his playing?
Job security?? ...

I'm sorry, but even if this is 12 years old, I have to respond. Pat Martino, before he was 15, before he could read music, and while he was playing with top bands in NYC, used his own analytical mind to create a complete understanding of the guitar neck that has not been approached in completeness and sophistication by anybody. All of the elements of music and jazz theory are fitted together like a jigsaw puzzle finally assembled. It takes a good mind to understand Pat and his work. I see lots of people criticize his philosophy, and I suspect as in this case, it's because they simply don't have the mind to appreciate it. Kind of like saying "yeah they made me take a philosophy class in school, that's a bunch of baloney." Obviously, since philosophy departments all faded out of existence. Or, I don't mind when she makes me go to church with her, but all that dying on the cross stuff is baloney." Or, "yeah, I like to overbore my pistons, but when they say you gotta change your mixture and calculate new exhaust hearers, it is a bunch of baloney."

I hate to say the obvious, but you will not ever get much out of Pat Martino's approach. You're not able to understand it fully. I guess you need something a little more concrete.

And if you feel the need to insult him because he makes you feel stupid, well, you're the wanker. Wanker boy. The bell curve is real.

[pauln]

..........

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