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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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11-21-2019 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
You're right about the beat. I keep trying to "swing" in the traditional sense, but Jimmy players rather even 8ths and gets his swing feel from Some Other Place which I need to find.
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Doesn’t Jimmy talk about this in the introduction of the book? I seem to recall he says something like the ‘modern’ approach is to play almost even eighths, so the ‘swing’ has to come from other elements, e.g. dynamics, accenting certain notes, (I think).
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Originally Posted by grahambop
Raney-Preface.pdf
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Found my copy, I was thinking of this:
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3/8 3/8/2/8 = Tresillo (the primary African rhythm) or the New Orleans clave.
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Originally Posted by rintincop
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What makes a jazz solo musical? When it’s conceived as a composition - instant or premeditated to some extent - that fits into an overall performance of music and not simply getting through the changes, or flexing ones chops....
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
Try this - play or sing swing just the ‘ands’. This should sound a bit Louis Prima if it’s done right
Now against a medium tempo swing drum track (such as one of the loops on Drum Genius) play a scale as straight as you can accenting the ‘ands’.
It should feel really stretchy and weird. Almost against the beat. Post it up here and we’ll be able to say if it’s right, but you may be able to tell yourself.
Then move to one phrase at a time from the solo, doing the same thing.
EDIT: a few people have said this.... agreement on JGO! Who’d have thunk it?
And obviously that’s the feel side of it (micro rhythm) but a few people have also opined on the polymetric nature of Jimmy’s phrasing, with lots of irregular accents. I believe there a masterclass floating around in the interwebs?Last edited by christianm77; 11-22-2019 at 05:26 AM.
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There is of course a video of Jimmy playing Out of Nowhere:
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In that video it seemed to me that his first chorus still retained a lot of the melody. But his final chorus had a lot more complexity, more notes etc. So that’s perhaps one way to build a good solo, i.e. progress gradually from ‘simple’ to ‘complex’. I know I try and do that a bit.
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And, although it's not a set-in-stone rule, low to high.
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Lawson, it seems to me that focusing so much on trying to execute Raney's solos with Raney's feel is somewhat at cross purposes with making your own playing more musical. Because you know exactly what's coming, a tendency to rush or play ahead of the beat is baked into the performance.
Plus, there's this perverse thing that can happen when one does something over and over again: the places that give you trouble start giving you more trouble. You anticipate the tricky bit, and you undermine yourself and flub it. It's difficult to break out of that vicious circle.
IMHO, time to stop transcribing and start playing.
John
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Originally Posted by grahambop
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Originally Posted by John A.
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Originally Posted by John A.
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
John
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Originally Posted by christianm77
John
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Emotion and sentiment are a dominant part of a great solo. No one seems to have mentioned that but that is what great music is about. It is not about executing pre-planned riffs over particular changes. No one cares about that shit except maybe other musicians...maybe. Keith Jarrett once commented that a good solo is the sound of "someone working on themselves" meaning they are having an inner struggle to deliver a lyrical and emotional statement that maybe they don't fully understand. We all know when this happens in a live performance. We are moved emotionally.
Ask yourself, when you play are you trying to move the audience and make an emotional musical statement or are you trying to fit riffs over chords in a logical manner? If you are doing the latter you will never play a musical solo...it will just be some notes strung together maybe with some logic but it won't move people to care...
'
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Emotion's overrated. You feeling emotional over "Out of Nowhere?"
Have fun and play something that fits the music. If you're sad, yeah, you can play sad...but don't try to make people "feel something." Definitely don't try to make people feel something you aren't.
Cheesy old tune like this, just play the shit out of it, swing hard, and you know what? Itll make anyone smart enough to listen happy. Happiness is contagious.
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I like someone who can make it real. Some conviction. Some connection. Strength. As was mentioned: intent. That might be the emotion Roberoo was talking about.
You can really see this in Classical. If you can't make it real it really sucks. Classical is like Shakespearean acting in that way. I saw Horowitz's last concert at Carnegie. It was solid, musical and real even at like... 85 or something.
Jimmy's got that. This music is part of his life. It's who he is/was. All he had to do was be himself.
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
I may have misunderstood your question. Are you looking to play this solo better? Or are you seeking to understand the art and the science inherent in the transcription and improvise your own solos?
David
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Originally Posted by Roberoo
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Originally Posted by 3rdwaverider
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OK, then, I think the answer is in the woodshed; there's no way around it. I started down the road to improvising in earnest just over two years ago, and every once in awhile, I hear myself play a good one. I think you're well ahead of me, having played all those transcribed solos. You have the tones and the tempos in your ears, so you're going to recognize the sound you are looking for when you hear it.
David
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