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I'm taking a jazz improv class at the local college. First assignment was Tune Up. No problem. Now it's Countdown. Big problem. I understand the concepts in a very abstract sense, but I'm not advanced enough to assimilate and apply them. So maybe there are some different ways of looking at the structure to simplify soloing over it?
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08-21-2019 06:57 PM
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Just thought of something that I never tried but might be worth a try
as an experiment at least.
Given:
You have already played Tune Up successfully.
Countdown is a harmonic elaboration on the structure of Tune.
Similar to Tune Up, Countdown bars 1-4, 5-8 and 9-12 make the same
move symmetrically down a whole step. The starting chord and the target
of each 4 bars are the same.
Suggested experiment:
Record a bunch of improvised repetitions play playing over Tune Up changes.
Transcribe what you played (on paper).
Adjust notes as needed to address the modulations of the Countdown version.
This is a possible training wheels path to develop the skill to do this spontaneously.
What I like about this is that you will be modifying phrases played within your
comfort zone, with a high likelihood of sounding like legit music as opposed to
mechanically chasing after the modulations. If you try this, let me know how it goes.
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Well first order of business, I'd say, would be to slow it down as much as possible, if you haven't already.
One idea I've seen floating around is instead of looking at the changes as I-bIII: from the the beginning of one bar to the next, think of the changes as sections of V-Is: Em7 (F7 BbMaj7 - Db7 GbMaj7 - A7 DMaj7...) etc.
Listening to Trane play Countdown, Giant Steps, he does a lot of ascending I-II-III-V arpeggios as well as descending I-V-III-I and I-VII-V-III/I-VII-V-I.
Just working on cementing those patterns in your fingers/ears will help.
At least they have for me.
Hope this helps.
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Originally Posted by arielcee
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Originally Posted by buduranus2
D-7 - Eb7 - AbMaj7 - B7 - EMaj7 -G7
D-7 ..........................G7....................
The Bridge to "Have You Met Miss Jones" is built on 3 key centers: Bb, GB, D - each a major third apart from each other.
Same as the Giant Steps Cycle (B, G, Eb)
I don't think it's clear whether Trane took inspiration from that or not. I think Wayne Shorter mentions somewhere that Coltrane knew of the HYMMJ, but it might not have been the source. Beside the point though...
As far as finding a way to overlay the cycle on to the II-V-I, unless it's just a way of thinking about it I'm not sure there is any shortcut that can tie all three key centers into the resolving target I.
I'd say definitely work with HYMMJ and Giant Steps in addition to
or even before Countdown.
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Originally Posted by arielcee
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I'm working on Countdown right now and I've had most success with playing throuh the chord changes on a single string. Six practice sessions like that did a lot.
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I’m surprised that they came in with Countdown right after the way easier Tune Up. Countdown lends itself to very challenging “vertical” playing. That is, each chord would be musically described in a specific way. For example, a C7 chord could be described with the pattern 1 2 3 5 (C D E G) 1 2 3 1 ( C D E C) or other pattern (or “cell”) of chord tones and passing tones. So a good way to practice this is to pick a pattern (1 2 3 5, I recommend for starters) and run it through the changes (of course “3” would be “b3” on minor chords). But this is very challenging.
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Originally Posted by Rsilver
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Originally Posted by Askildsen
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Countdown was Coltrane's re-write of Tune Up. Thus the sequence makes sense.
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Originally Posted by rintincop
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Memorize the chord changes and it becomes a lot easier.
I would treat it like Coltrane treated Giant Steps (and Countdown).
He pretty much did these 4 devices all the time for the changes of G.S.
1. Play the chord's arpeggio.
2. 4 note cells. His favorite being: step step skip : 1 2 3 5 (descending 5 3 2 1) or same shape from the 5th (5 6 7 9) or 6th (6 7 8 10)
3. Play the scale of the chord.
4. Weave simple very brief melodies based on chord/scale of the momentLast edited by rintincop; 08-24-2019 at 03:11 PM.
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Originally Posted by rintincop
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He uses 4 devices to "make the changes" of Giant Steps (see above). He was very precise with Giant Steps, more so than than his Countdown solo where he did the same thing but less carefully.
It's like continuously linking together 4 puzzle pieces. With slow daily practice it's doable. First learn the changes by arpeggio. Then the 4 note cell...
My analysis, per every 2 beats:
| arpeggio up, simple melody from chord/scale | arpeggio down, 4 note cell |arpeggio down, 4 note cell down |
| scale ascending | arpeggio down, displaced scale | arpeggio up, arpeggio up|
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Originally Posted by rintincop
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What bars sound like resolutions to you? Which sound like tensions?
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I get the V7 I aspects as well as the overarching ii V I from Tune Up. It's the circle of thirds that's difficult to process, as well as finding a unifying thread (scale?) so I don't have to negotiate each individual chord.
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In looking over the Coltrane transcription, referring to the sections with two chords per measure, it certainly looks like he was playing on each chord individually. Some of the connections are nearby notes, but other times he makes a fairly large jump to the first note of the next chord.
When the harmonic rhythm slows, it looks more like tonal center playing.
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I suppose you've seen this. Mind you, sax is one thing, guitar's another. I think your teacher's a sadist. Can he play it on guitar at that speed? Can anyone ???
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I can’t play countdown lol. Giant Steps is one thing (that I almost never play on gigs) but Countdown is IMO for people who really want to master the Trane changes thing to an unusually high level. Just the tempo alone.
I see where the teacher is coming from as it’s a sub for Tune Up. But then I haven’t played Tune Up for like a decade.
Jazz education tunes are their own separate world.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Or be out of your head on smack and meth, of course. I bet that helps a lot :-)
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This won't help at all and your teacher won't like you. Play it all in Bb. This was take 1 and no trying to aim for the chords either...
I know, it's definitly not bebop. But it's quite nice.
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Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
Last edited by buduranus2; 09-02-2019 at 12:53 PM.
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