Things I learned from Barry Harris Study Group

[christianm77]

my guitar mentor emailed me last night after reading some of this thread and said something like “go play some F*ing lines.” so don’t get the wrong idea everyone, i’m focusing on technique with the scales and chord scales (i have neglected technique a long time), but i play lines and tunes as well.

Here’s a blues, devices used: added notes, triplets, 3 phrase, 5 phrase, turnaround to 2 with the major scale down to 3rd of G7, 2 jimmy raney licks

I have noticed a huge improvement in my phrasing for both blues and rhythm changes, as well as the ability to map them out through the fretboard more clearly

Very nice!

[christianm77]

Temporarily reunited with my guitar. Had like 30 minutes of quality time with it and Barry’s scales. Tried to have some fun along the way. Second chorus comes with some twists:

I like the way there was a bit of a natural evolution between the scale outlines and towards lines.

[christianm77]

Try recording a solo without click and comp (or just say the beat) along with the recording. That’ll tell you how well you can keep time without a click. It’s a real eye opener!

I swap between practicing with a click and without - I think both have something to teach us, but ultimately the aim is not to play with something, it’s to state your own time.

[tamirgal]

Try recording a solo without click and comp (or just say the beat) along with the recording. That’ll tell you how well you can keep time without a click. It’s a real eye opener!

I swap between practicing with a click and without - I think both have something to teach us, but ultimately the aim is not to play with something, it’s to state your own time.

I don't need to do that, because I already know I can't keep time without a click... lol
When we say keep time, do we mean losing tempo, or do we mean getting lost in the changes. Because I do both!

Seriously, I'm amazed by the ability of players to play solo setup when it's not a rubato kind of thing. This is something that'll take me lifetime to develop.

[grahambop]

Seriously, I'm amazed by the ability of players to play solo setup when it's not a rubato kind of thing. This is something that'll take me lifetime to develop.

Actually this is how I usually practise tunes now, although I do spend a long time really getting to know the sound of the changes first. It sort of developed by accident, because I just couldn’t be bothered with the time and hassle of getting up a backing track on my ageing desktop (I didn’t have iReal or iPad or anything like that at the time). I just wanted to grab the guitar and play, and eventually I realised I could manage ok without the crutch of backing tracks etc.

I do like to use a metronome sometimes though. But even there, it’s good to try your time without it sometimes, you have to fall back on your ‘internal clock’ as it were.

[christianm77]

I don't need to do that, because I already know I can't keep time without a click... lol
When we say keep time, do we mean losing tempo, or do we mean getting lost in the changes. Because I do both!

Seriously, I'm amazed by the ability of players to play solo setup when it's not a rubato kind of thing. This is something that'll take me lifetime to develop.

Yeah but you can key into the mistakes that you make and find strategies for working on them. For instance I tend to gravitate to a ‘pet tempos’ for a given tune, usually rushing the original tempo until I click into that tempo; and tend to drop beats when playing melodies. It’s pretty embarrassing.

A simple one is to count the beat through everything you play. Easier said than done.

And to play with a metronome at in between tempos like 127 and 163.

Going back and forth between practice and recording and you notice an improvement. Then it becomes rewarding.

Peter Bernstein says if you can hear and phrase the melody of a tune at that tempo, you can play it at that tempo. Simple really, but easy to forget.

[tamirgal]

I like the way there was a bit of a natural evolution between the scale outlines and towards lines.

Thanks. Everything there is within the Barry Harris scale exercises. Play the dominant up and down and finish it with the "4" phrase. On bar 7 it was play the major scale down to the 5 then do "5", "4", "3", then down to the 3rd of A7, etc.

Most folks don't know where to go next after being able to play scale outlines. I think it's a natural next step, combine the ABCs with the scales practice.

[christianm77]

Thanks. Everything there is within the Barry Harris scale exercises. Play the dominant up and down and finish it with the "4" phrase. On bar 7 it was play the major scale down to the 5 then do "5", "4", "3", then down to the 3rd of A7, etc.

Most folks don't know where to go next after being able to play scale outlines. I think it's a natural next step, combine the ABCs with the scales practice.

I like it - it’s not something I have ever done myself, but I think it’s a good tool for teaching for sure .

[grahambop]

Thanks to Chris’ videos, I’m getting into this BH scale stuff. I don’t usually play scales much, but I like this approach of mapping them onto tunes and the one octave thing, kind of makes more sense to me. Also I’ve done a lot of the BH chord stuff with Alan’s book, so it makes sense to now explore the single-note side as well. Anyway I’ve been doing the scales on tunes like Donna Lee, Hot House and How Deep Is The Ocean. Not really worrying about speed, just exploring the idea.

It does seem to generate some new ideas and help navigating the tunes better, I like that. I already seem to know a lot of the bop devices e.g. half steps, pivots etc. because that’s what I’ve been learning from the records for years. But it’ll be interesting to explore them more systematically than before.

Anyway as a start I’ve ordered the Talk Jazz Guitar book so I’ve got something a bit more structured to follow than just watching the videos.

[christianm77]

Yeah I think BH works great as a way of consolidating and developing ‘transcribed’ material. That’s the way I used it because I could already play a bit of bop before I started getting into BH properly and had been studying heads and solos for a while.

I see it as a way of going beyond simply regurgitating licks and getting into ways you can vary them a bit more.

You can build it up for the ground up, but I think there’s a tacit understanding that you are listening a lot - not transcribing necessarily, but listening out for stuff and repeating phrases as you hear them.

One thing I can now do that I couldn’t do 5 years ago, is recognise ‘words’ in the bop vocabulary at tempo. Sometimes I don’t know a word and have to slow it down and work it out, but for straightforward stuff like Mobley, grant green etc I hear it pretty much first time. Jimmy Raney maybe a little less lol. But that’s the goal, right? Information in —> information out.

That’s what’s Barry’s classes actually model in real time.

[grahambop]

I’ve been getting a lot of inspiration from this track by Barry, as it’s a tune I keep working on. I love the sort of ‘lazy swing’ he has and also the way he punches in some notes with more weight than the others, that is a big part of his style I think. Shows that dynamics and rhythmic emphasis are really important too.

[tamirgal]

Tried a chorus on rhythm changes trying to stick to the outline and add some Barry Harris stuff. Getting back into the practice! Yay!

I don’t know how I missed this, this is pure gold!
Thanks!

[joe2758]

interesting side note, i’m recognozig tunes as being rhythm changes that i didn’t realize were before. just now it was “so sorry, please” and i’m like how didn’t i notice this before?

[don_oz]

I don’t know how I missed this, this is pure gold!
Thanks!

Thanks a lot! Glad you dig it! Listening back now I don't think I like the sound of the thomastiks could be the mic but don't like the sound. Time to try something else. Also the playing could be tighter, quite sloppy. Need to play with more intention.

[tamirgal]

Thanks a lot! Glad you dig it! Listening back now I don't think I like the sound of the thomastiks could be the mic but don't like the sound. Time to try something else. Also the playing could be tighter, quite sloppy. Need to play with more intention.

You worry about all that. And I’ll worry about transcribing what you did there..

[don_oz]

interesting side note, i’m recognozig tunes as being rhythm changes that i didn’t realize were before. just now it was “so sorry, please” and i’m like how didn’t i notice this before?

Saw this and decided to listen again, on the way back from teaching because I always knew the A sections were RC, but the bridge is a bit different for the first 4 bars I think at least.

[don_oz]

You worry about all that. And I’ll worry about transcribing what you did there..

There is a mistake, after I play Dm7 Dbm7 Cm7 Bmaj7 then 4 to the 3rd of Bb I wanted to run down Bb7 with one half step to the b7 of Bb.

[joe2758]

Saw this and decided to listen again, on the way back from teaching because I always knew the A sections were RC, but the bridge is a bit different for the first 4 bars I think at least.

hah k well nevermind my ear still sucks

[don_oz]

hah k well nevermind my ear still sucks

Man, my ear sucks too. The A sections are definitely based on RC clear as day, but it sounds like in the first 4 bars of the B section revolves to a Major chord first instead of going round the cycle from the start

[tamirgal]

Man, my ear sucks too. The A sections are definitely based on RC clear as day, but it sounds like in the first 4 bars of the B section revolves to a Major chord first instead of going round the cycle from the start

But have you listen to the soloing part? I think that’s straight RC, isn’t it?

[joe2758]

so i don't know what key it's in, but in B flat you mean the B section is like

Dmaj-D7-Gmaj-G7-Cmaj-C7-Fmaj-F7?

[joe2758]

But have you listen to the soloing part? I think that’s straight RC, isn’t it?

YES I win

[don_oz]

so i don't know what key it's in, but in B flat you mean the B section is like

Dmaj-D7-Gmaj-G7-Cmaj-C7-Fmaj-F7?

It's in Eb

But can you see, it's not a straight rhythm bridge, I'll transcribe bud's recording today and see.

[don_oz]

The bridge goes like this: |Bbm7 |Eb7 |Ab^ | % |C7 |F7 |Bb7 | % |

EDIT: Upon transcribing the melody as well the bridge actually goes like this |Bbm7 |Eb7 |Ab^ | % |Cm7 |F7 |Fm7 |Bb7 | Bud also plays this in the solo too, you can hear him play roots in his left hand in the bridge, clear as day.

[christianm77]

Honeysuckle Rose or Montgomery Ward bridge

You’ll find a lot of tunes with a rhythm A with this brodge