Things I learned from Barry Harris Study Group

[joe2758]

ps don't forget about the chord scales guys!

[wzpgsr]

I just noticed tonight that I don’t really hear the blues progression behind the scale outline. Anyone else? I mean it’s there, but in a 1950 rock ‘n’ roll blues sort of way. I think my ear wants the individual chords, especially subs, outlined. The one place that I really do hear the sub quite clearly is the I major down to the third of the VI7.

[rlrhett]

Makes sense. Like one of those marathon groups. Everyone is training for a different personal best, but the camaraderie helps everyone keep going. We can talk about how one might train for a marathon, but that's not the central point. The point is helping each other make our PR.

I haven't systematically practiced scales in decades. After a week and a half, I'm at full blown frustration level. My fingers have forgotten how to do anything else. I fall asleep hearing the scales in my head. Heck, it's running through my head RIGHT NOW. But I'm nothing if not stubborn. I will finish this month of daily practice doing my cycle. I am looking forward to adding more musical exercises soon, but I assume running these scales will be a part of my daily routine from now on out for whatever piece I want to work on.

[rlrhett]

I just noticed tonight that I don’t really hear the blues progression behind the scale outline. Anyone else? I mean it’s there, but in a 1950 rock ‘n’ roll blues sort of way. I think my ear wants the individual chords, especially subs, outlined. The one place that I really do hear the sub quite clearly is the I major down to the third of the VI7.

I hear you. If you had played this to me ten years ago when all I played was Mississippi John Hurt and Blind Blake (especially at 200bpm) I would have told you that meth is a dangerous drug and you really should cut back.


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[don_oz]

Nice groove! Yes!

[christianm77]

I’d like to use this forum to set myself some challenges.... on hols next week. Will be away from my guitar but will prob end up thinking of things to work on.

Everyone’s at different levels of course but hopefully you can appreciate there’s always stuff that will make one stop and think.

[matt.guitarteacher]

I’d like to use this forum to set myself some challenges.... on hols next week. Will be away from my guitar but will prob end up thinking of things to work on.

Everyone’s at different levels of course but hopefully you can appreciate there’s always stuff that will make one stop and think.

Have a good time. Thanks for making that video first. Great stuff.

[matt.guitarteacher]

Here's where I am "cold" on these blues scales this week. Not where I want to be, but this is just kind of practicing them. I can play any of them pretty well if I play them for a couple of minutes, but that's not really my goal. This week I'm just going to memorize a couple of positions cold on blues and RC. I almost feel like I needed to have done this on a little of all of it, in order to decide which ones I want to work on.

I missed the original inclusion of RC. So, that kind of changes my stated goals, I guess. Mostly want to practice a couple of positions really well I think.

The following may be basic to many, but I thought I'd post, in case there's anyone who might find it useful. Just my personal take on using scales to address technique:

...and cycling scale fingerings:

[christianm77]

Here's where I am "cold" on these blues scales this week. Not where I want to be, but this is just kind of practicing them. I can play any of them pretty well if I play them for a couple of minutes, but that's not really my goal. This week I'm just going to memorize a couple of positions cold on blues and RC. I almost feel like I needed to have done this on a little of all of it, in order to decide which ones I want to work on.

I missed the original inclusion of RC. So, that kind of changes my stated goals, I guess. Mostly want to practice a couple of positions really well I think.

The following may be basic to many, but I thought I'd post, in case there's anyone who might find it useful. Just my personal take on using scales to address technique:

Good stuff Matt - you can also run the Eb7 scale down to E togetEo7

[matt.guitarteacher]

Good stuff Matt - you can also run the Eb7 scale down to E togetEo7

Cool. It's that how dude plays it here, or a variation? I already learned it wrong once before this version... :-)

[christianm77]

Dunno, haven’t watched the vids - probably should!

There’s usually a few variations with the scale oitlines

[joe2758]

the TILF BH guy plays the basic 4 up and down, but that is a cool variation Christian

[joe2758]

Today I did RC and blues in Db at 3rd-ish position, upper register followed by lower register each time. 100-180 pretty easily, 190 strained, and at 200 I was able to get the upper register blues. Making progress, because I think originally things were falling apart after 170.

Chords: Eb7b5 dim drop 3 lowest to highest and back 100 bpm half notes
Eb6 maj dim drop 2 lowest to highest and back 100 bpm half notes
Ebmin 6 dim drop 2 lowest to highest and back 100 bpm half notes.

didn't try to push tempo with the chords...just wasn't feeling it

[christianm77]

3rd position is the best sounding position. The study of the fretboard is just a pathway to making sure you can play everything below B above the treble clef around 3rd position. Imo

[christianm77]

I’m not there yet lol

[christianm77]

It’s a pain in the butt for reading sometimes

[matt.guitarteacher]

3rd position is the best sounding position. The study of the fretboard is just a pathway to making sure you can play everything below B above the treble clef around 3rd position. Imo

So with added note scales and such, how do you determine which and how many positions to develop things in? I'd view this kind of thing is a continuum , with one extreme being you learn everything to death all the way through in one position first .... and the other extreme being you that you learn everything, all along the way, in multiple positions.

I would assume the best is a kind of middle ground. My own personal inclination is to learn new stuff in one or two positions , and then, along the way, go back and develop new positions for older/easier material?

Beyond that, I know that tune- specific considerations make decisions for you.

[matt.guitarteacher]

It’s a pain in the butt for reading sometimes

You mean 3rd position specifically?

[christianm77]

You mean 3rd position specifically?

Yeah cos you need to do more travelling than you would for a higher position - or so it seems to me. A lot of music is sort of 5th position with upper extensions.

[christianm77]

So with added note scales and such, how do you determine which and how many positions to develop things in? I'd view this kind of thing is a continuum , with one extreme being you learn everything to death all the way through in one position first .... and the other extreme being you that you learn everything, all along the way, in multiple positions.

I would assume the best is a kind of middle ground. My own personal inclination is to learn new stuff in one or two positions , and then, along the way, go back and develop new positions for older/easier material?

Beyond that, I know that tune- specific considerations make decisions for you.

Yeah the guitar just kind of pops in that area. Mike Moreno points this out and now I can’t unhear it.

High position low strings is just so woolly and non descript. Probably good if you want a very round and closed type of sound, but not if you want to cut.

In terms of fingerings there are some which flow better than others, but I think you can deal with this and still be in that sweet spot on the guitar.

Julian Bream talked about this btw - the different colours of the different positions.

I don’t think this is an excuse for not learning the fretboard - exactly the opposite. But every guitar will have a slightly different response.

[joe2758]

Duuuude you should post a video too recording yourself is a great way to hear if you're heading in the right direction. And it will be good for everyone else too to see if they can hear things they notice from the BH approach. Stuff like 5432 or Tri tones or other movements. We will also get to hear how people use them in their own context.

my guitar mentor emailed me last night after reading some of this thread and said something like “go play some F*ing lines.” so don’t get the wrong idea everyone, i’m focusing on technique with the scales and chord scales (i have neglected technique a long time), but i play lines and tunes as well.

Here’s a blues, devices used: added notes, triplets, 3 phrase, 5 phrase, turnaround to 2 with the major scale down to 3rd of G7, 2 jimmy raney licks

I have noticed a huge improvement in my phrasing for both blues and rhythm changes, as well as the ability to map them out through the fretboard more clearly

[tamirgal]

Temporarily reunited with my guitar. Had like 30 minutes of quality time with it and Barry’s scales. Tried to have some fun along the way. Second chorus comes with some twists:

[tamirgal]

my guitar mentor emailed me last night after reading some of this thread and said something like “go play some F*ing lines.” so don’t get the wrong idea everyone, i’m focusing on technique with the scales and chord scales (i have neglected technique a long time), but i play lines and tunes as well.

Here’s a blues, devices used: added notes, triplets, 3 phrase, 5 phrase, turnaround to 2 with the major scale down to 3rd of G7, 2 jimmy raney licks

I have noticed a huge improvement in my phrasing for both blues and rhythm changes, as well as the ability to map them out through the fretboard more clearly

Nice mellow lines man.
You practice without backing track or click? I can’t do that, would get lost in time eventually.
You played that Bb 5 phrase on the Cm7-F7 on bar 9, right? Try either playing that when the chord is Bb, it might work bit better. On bar 9, you can try 5 phrase in F.
I like to put a 5 in Bb on bar 7, and then link it somehow into the 3rd of G7.

[joe2758]

Nice mellow lines man.
You practice without backing track or click? I can’t do that, would get lost in time eventually.
You played that Bb 5 phrase on the Cm7-F7 on bar 9, right? Try either playing that when the chord is Bb, it might work bit better. On bar 9, you can try 5 phrase in F.
I like to put a 5 in Bb on bar 7, and then link it somehow into the 3rd of G7.

i use backing tracks, metronomes, and drum genius all the time, but when i record on my phone i do t think i can have it going.

The 5 phrase is in f though

[tamirgal]

The 5 phrase is in f though

I see. My bad then.