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I have never heard a free-er player than Thelonious, he is making the music in his head, having a blast doing it. Thats free to me. That he has a sophisticated harmonic sense is just mo' better, more sounds, more feelings. That has been a revelation to me, I want as full a toolbox as I can pack, so when I unpack it I dont just have one or two tools to work with. But when I first heard Monk I had so little in my bag, I was just confused and not capable of playing anything but the melodies and trying to make a solos based on bending those melodies. I did not fully understand playing the changes and especially not the way someone as accomplished as Monk did it.
Originally Posted by gator811
I enjoyed cubistguitar's post. I have come across a few players over the years who have discovered Bebop via Free Jazz. There's been a bit of "learn to play properly first" rhetoric around even since I was a youngster but it didnt always sit right with me - and wasnt always based on anything other than a few generalisations.
That someone hears the connection is reaffirming and makes me happy.
The first time I heard John Gilmore play for instance was with the Jazz Messengers, but he had been with Sun Ra before that - that guy could play anything. Metheny - is much more of a hardcore jazzer now than he was 30-40 years ago when he was really exploring jazz ala Ornette (It's a personal thing but I know which era of PM I prefer). I heard Archie Shepp playing standards back in the 80's and loved it . The idea of a horse before the cart is never that simple in this music.
But foolishly I dove headfirst into noise blasting without all the skills I should have gathered, but that was where my head was at. Now as I gather those skills, I wait much longer to make that noise blast, its like another tool in the box. My head is older and the "fire in the petshop" is only going to work if it contrasts with melody and rhythm, like the way Threadgill makes such a heady stew that isn't traditional, but isn't a mess of uncoordinated blasting either, a genius that walk the free and composer line with ease. Improvised counterpoint is one of my favorite sounds to hear done well.
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09-20-2017 10:29 AM
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Absolutely. A master - as all of those AACM guys are in their own ways. And Liberty Ellman's playing is another great example of that free/bop nexus IMO.Threadgill makes such a heady stew that isn't traditional, but isn't a mess of uncoordinated blasting either, a genius that walk the free and composer line with ease. Improvised counterpoint is one of my favorite sounds to hear done well.
It's been mentioned before, but I think its an affirmation that whatever "bop" is - the harmony specific and formal part of the syntax gets a lot of attention - whereas the syntactical elements of the melodic content and the rhythmic content in particular are really compelling - Ornette (and his band) captured it - so did Don Cherry, Archie Shepp, Dolphy et al.
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Just as a public service announcement, anyone within reach of Boston and interested in playing with others and working on a free improvisational approach, language and chops, I've got a space close to Symphony Hall that I open the doors to for weekly hangs Tuesdays and Wednesday evenings.
Here's information on that or you can PM me if you'd like.
David
The free improvisors group meets every week at Westland Music, located at 54B Westland Ave. That's right over there by Symphony Hall, and we're just below street level, so look down when you're on the street.
Some FAQs
What is Free Improvisation?
This is playing without restriction on form. It's not formless, or random, but rather it's you using an instrument to control sound, form, line, direction, harmony if you choose, rhythm, in short, those elements of composition, but in real time. If you can make sound on your instrument, you can improvise.
Do I need any experience?
Absolutely not. As a matter of fact, this is a process of meeting those things that keep you from being a good composer/musician: Getting rid of habit playing. An open mind and open ears.
The more you do it, the more natural you become with your voice.
What do I need?
Bring your instrument. I'm sorry, I don't have drums here nor am I set up for them, it's a quiet space and just about any other instrument is welcome. I have two electric pianos here, and amps for guitar and bass, and the space is good for voice (vocalists SO welcome!)
How does it work?
We have series of duos. You can discuss what you want to do, or you just begin the conversation. What comes out is made up of what you can imagine, what you hear from your duo partner and where you can go given all you know about yourself as a musician. And what you'll discover!Then what?
After each duo, I will often ask the players, then the listeners what they thought. What you felt happened, what opportunities you discovered, what you missed in hindsight, and we all talk about what we heard being composed and what happened when. It's great for the ears, the creative voice and great for your sense of musical self.
Who can attend?
THese sessions are open to everyone. Just drop in. We often have Berklee students, Boston Con students, Mass art students, NEC students. It's very equal in the world of music.
When do we meet
Tuesdays are Free Improvisational sessions 6-8
Wednesdays are the same format but often we will also work with song form, to practice fluency with our creative and artistic compositional abilities on a song form. Picture free form over the song form of Stella... or bitonal treatment of Days of Wine and Roses or any tune. It's free improvisation where the third player is the form.
That's Wednesday 6-8
Send me any questions you have, come see what we're about and come explore the music spirit you never meet in a classroom.
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Just to go back to the OP for a minute, Ayler's (wonderful) music does have some structure and plenty of outside influence to latch on to...Blues...spirituals...New Orleans street bands...I hear all of that. I'd start by picking up on the rhythmic inflections you want to express...the pitches aren't as important...
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This is my tribute to John Coltrane who would have been 93 on Sep 23, 2017.
In this improvisation over a Gmin7 pedal, I am utilizing several rhythmic and harmonic devices along with dodecaphonics. I am thinking a lot of the transition between Gm7 and Fm7/G which is essentially G Phrygian but I am also superimposing a lot of other harmonic material including chord progressions, inside/outside playing and at times just letting the melodic flow take me where I feel it wants to go.
I'm also using quite a bit of 3 over 4 and 5 over 5 rhythmic devices and some sheets of sound - out of time - playing.
I hope you find this useful.
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Hey everyone, thank you for the continued input! Sorry for being absent from this discussion over the past couple of weeks. I was in Chicago visiting family and hearing some great shows. Definitely check out Tuesday jam session at Hungry Brain if you haven't (for chicago locals). I got to hear some great stuff from the AACM as well at the Hyde Park jazz festival. One of the most moving sets was Nick Mazzarella and Tomeka Reid. They played an improvised set that blew me away. They weaved in and out of tonal playing very fluidly and managed to keep an auditorium full of unsuspecting listeners entertained. I say unsuspecting because a lot of people show up to this with their own idea of "Jazz Festival" not realize that Chicago was and is the home to some of the most influential free and avant garde musicians.
TruthHertz, that free jam session sounds like fun. Wish I lived in your area. I'm on the west coast.
Jeff, that is a very good point wrt to Ayler. I know very little about that style of music, but there must be a wealth of material for inspiration there. I listen to a lot of free stuff, but Ayler has always been like a brick wall to me. You've given me something else for deeper listening.
Jack, Thanks for that lesson. Once again extremely useful, but maybe in a different context. Appreciate your willingness to help educate!
Ok, so back to the ensemble. We had our first meeting yesterday. We haven't begun to touch Ayler yet, but we did some really cool exercises. Obviously, I'm still figuring out how to make coherent material in this kind of context, but there were some lessons that everyone musician can relate to, whether playing free or not.
Exercise 1: Musical Memory
The leader would play a note, and the rest of the group would play it on their instrument. Then the leader would play the original note and then add another note to it and we played the new sequence. Then we'd iterate until we built full melody one note at a time. The goal of the exercise was to reinforce two things: 1) ear training and the ability to recognize pitch and play what you hear; 2) musical memory and the ability to recall past information to inform future decisions, not just in terms of melody but in terms of form.
Exercise 2: Improvised Solo Rondo
Each member of the group took a turn improvising solo in Rondo form (ABACAD&c). The goal was to force us to impose form on our free improvisation. It was tricky and not everyone was able to do it. It took some coaching before we all got it.
Exercise 3: Improvised Duet Sonata
A pair would improvise in Sonata form (ABA). I got to play with a drummer. The new challenge here was to be able to communicate with your partner about when we'd move to the next section, when to come back, and when to end the piece. Great exercise to reinforce collaboration and listening.
Exercise 4: No predetermined form, group improv, only 2 players at a time
At any moment, any two players could play at once. We could interrupt one another, a duet could interrupt a duet. Again this reinforce collaboration, but it required even closer listening so ensure we didn't have to many or too few voices going at once. Even though form was not predetermined, we managed to move in an out of relatable sections.
Exercise 5: Same as 4 but with three at a time.
Similar lesson as 4, but this was a lot harder. This time, each player was encouraged to try to get in on the action as much as possible. This required even closer listening, since many times multiple people would try to jump in simultaneously resulting in >3 players playing at once. In those moments, one of the players would have to drop out.
Exercise 6: Everyone gets to play, fully free improv.
Most of us played way too much, but we had learned a lot from the previous exercises.
Looking forward to playing more with these guys and sharing/learning more from you kind folks here.
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That sounds GREAT! Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
There are so many approaches to listening exercises, just learning to be comfortable with MUSIC that allows you to play too much, and makes it apparent.
Keep reporting back. Great stuff!
David
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Here’s an example of Spontaneous Creativity (part 1 of 5 )
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Chunking, does it work for Jazz improv?
Today, 10:59 AM in Guitar Technique