Which Scales are most commonly used?

**syllerud** · 08-21-2009, 03:12 PM

Hello jazzguitarist of this wonderfull forum. At the momement i mastered to get borred of blues and the pentatonic minor scale, and im desperatly seeking forward to play some jazz.
I need to know: For jazz improvosations, which scales are most commonly used?
- i've read the Dorian and Mixolydian should be important onces.
- And maybe some of your own tips to soloing.
Answers would be lovely. - im generally talking about Classic Jazz.

I would love to pratice some solos over arrangements from "Kind of Blue" - by Miles Davis. (you knew that).

i know this question isn't suited for this forum, but if you want i need a quick "how to EQ to a jazz tone" with mid/treble/bass/reverb on the amp. (playing a telecaster directly to a line 6 spider 3).

- kind regards, sylvester.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 08-21-2009, 03:20 PM

For scales, you can check out these lessons: Free Jazz Guitar Lessons Online | Learn How To Play Jazz Guitar With Tabs

For a Jazz tone, I suggest heavier, flatwound strings, use your neck pickup, roll the tone down about 1/3. On your amp (I don't know Line 6) start with the EQ all at 12, but try rolling off the treble and bass and rasing the mids a little. Just a touch of reverb, if at all. Keep it clean.

ps. Check out this guy's Tele sound:

**gravitas** · 08-21-2009, 04:17 PM

Chromatic Scale. Get to know every degree very well.

**fep** · 08-21-2009, 05:34 PM

My opinion,

Learn the major scale and the related church modes (ionian, dorian, phyrgian, lydian, mixolydian, locrian). But please realize these are all the same fingering. Learn all 5 positions to connect the whold neck. Check this post...

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/theor...alk-modes.html

Learn the penatonic scale in all five positions.

Lean the blues scale in all five positions.

I'd say that will get you to an intermediate knowledge of scales. And you can make an awful lot of music with those.

The other scales like altered dominant, whole tone, diminished, etc, I just think that's too much and could be counterproductive. I think learning those was possible counterproductive for me... I was getting ahead of myself. imo

**syllerud** · 08-21-2009, 06:16 PM

Great, thank you guys for quick and smart replys!
Fep, i'll have a look into theese posts'.

**sc06yl** · 08-22-2009, 10:06 PM

Be careful just thinking in scales, you will delevope a very linear thought process when improvising.

Learn music. Get some theory books and do some reading and excersizes.

I would bet you if you asked most people who are serious about jazz and guitar 'things they should have done more of while starting playing jazz' a fair number would say "learn more theory...properly". If you want to continue playing you have to learn it anyways, you should just start now. It doesnt take long to get good technique in comparison to learning all the ins and outs of music, because the latter takes a lifetime.

I recommend buying some books, start with the rudiments, work up to classical harmony and jazz harmony. That should take a while to master. After you have the introduction to formal music theory look into the books on the areas you are interested in.

Sounds boring but I wish I dove right into it when I started playing. I could be miles a head from where I am now. I spent too much time worrying about what I sounded like at the time instead of focusing on the long term goal of being a compitent musician.

**lkmuller** · 08-28-2009, 06:58 PM

Jazz minor, jazz minor and jazz minor.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 08-28-2009, 11:25 PM

Originally Posted by lkmuller

Jazz minor, jazz minor and jazz minor.

All starting on different notes of chord you're playing over

**syllerud** · 09-17-2009, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

All starting on different notes of chord you're playing over

thanks for all the post, keep em' comming.
Great tip about the Jazz minor scale!

thanks, thanks... and thanks!

**derek** · 09-17-2009, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by gravitas

Chromatic Scale. Get to know every degree very well.

There it is.

**Joe Dalton** · 09-18-2009, 03:02 AM

The most commonly used would be, major, Altered (also known as super locrian and an inversion of the jazz minor) and diminished. After that we go into wholetone and harmonic minor and bebop scales and after that you have to get really obscure. Speaking from a current point of view, the bebop used to be used more.

**merseybeat** · 09-18-2009, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by lkmuller

Jazz minor, jazz minor and jazz minor.

And the Jazz minor! You can use this anywhere and everywhere! Whatsmore it fits your hand like a tailored glove!

Eddie

**franco6719** · 09-18-2009, 06:58 AM

Pentatonic scales and pattern have actually become extremely fashionable in the contemporary scene, especailly among horn players it seems. But not in the old rock and roll, blues sense. You can play things like B minor pentatonic over Cmaj6 to get the Lydian sound, etc..

**Sailor** · 09-22-2009, 09:56 PM

Please tell me about jazz minor - Aeolian, melodic, harmonic???

**lkmuller** · 09-22-2009, 10:29 PM

The Jazz minor is like the melodic minor scale, except it descends the same way it ascends. The melodic minor ascends with a flatted 3rd and natural 7th, but descends like the aeolian, with flat 3rd and flat 7th.

Once you get this scale under your fingers you'll find many different ways you can use it to create tension, release, tension, release, etc. Look for Emily Remler's explanation of how to use this scale, it's the simplest explanation I've heard and it works.

**Sailor** · 09-22-2009, 10:59 PM

so it's just a major scale with a flat 3 up and down, (technically) ?

**sydjester** · 09-23-2009, 01:11 AM

HI everybody, im new here, so i say hello to everybody, and id like to give some tips too , to our friend here who seems a bit lost...syllerud
to play some jazz, or to play any kind of music i think, you have to exercise the two most important things in studying, EAR TRAINING and READING MUSIC. all along your scales, arpegios, technique, sstudies, you must train your ear, and excercise your reading skill. then, as it was said here, must learn music theory, thats really important, most of all if you want to compose some music yourself!

. and then, if you re a guitar player, learn all in five positions, and practice a vertical and an horizontal aproach, that will give you more fluid technique, and always always tap your feet or use a metronome.play first in fours, then in eights, play only smooth eights, thats a good practice. time, rythm, movement. thats jazz! and practice very well the chromatic rules!! jazz is movement, chromatic rules teach you to walk! transcribe solos, write them down, analize it. AND LOVE IT. to play jazz is to study jazz. all the greats , all the greats, were all day long, studyin!!!! i hope this aproach to jazz became a never ending story to you! cheers

**Sailor** · 09-23-2009, 02:01 AM

Again...is jazz minor do-re-me-fa-sol-la-ti-do...up and down??

Thought it was a simple question!

**randalljazz** · 09-23-2009, 03:11 AM

Originally Posted by Sailor

so it's just a major scale with a flat 3 up and down, (technically) ?

YES!!!

**Meggy** · 09-23-2009, 05:55 AM

This is an interesting question though. I have just started to write down my "scale shapes" that I use, and hopefully will get to fill in a few gaps also. I guess you really should have major (ionian) for major chords, dorian (2nd major mode) for minor 7 chords, and mixolydian (5th mode) from the major scale for dominant chords. Plus the lydian (4th mode) is also nice for major type chords to add the sharp 4.

Then I would go for melodic minor (jazz minor), altered (7th mode of the melodic minor) and lydian dominant (or overtone dominant) which is the melodic minor's 4th mode. Plus the 6th mode of the melodic minor is nice and useful for playing over minor7b5 chords - not sure what it's called but someone will tell me I'm sure.

I think for me these are maybe the most important, but there must be others (I will hopefully get to given time). The "Blues Scale" is one such, minor pentatonic, other pentatonics, diminished, whole tone, harmonic minor plus it's modes. And then all the related arpeggio shapes of course. The mind boggles...

**sydjester** · 09-23-2009, 09:08 AM

i think that a player should not think in terms of modes in a diatonic context. if you have a II-m7 V7 to a Imaj7.lets say Dm7 G7 Cmaj7. to think in dorian, then mixolidian and then ionian, its to me a waste of time. you have to learn the modes , but to think it as one scale that in different degrees relay on differents notes. if your ear knows how the major scale works, you will not have to think in 3 different scales, youll hear it! so , more important than remembering all the modes, is to train your ear! learn the chromatic rules. i think that all the mentioned scales here are ok, but the chromatic rules are the basis to the jazz vocabulary. first of all is necesary to learn the bop rules. chromatic rules, pivots, arpegios and chromatic approach, are the basis to everything. to practice scales, is to practice how it works, not only the positions on the fretboard. you must know how it sounds, feel it, then you will be able to use it. when you have all the information interiorized in your mind, ear and hand, your mind will not boggle lol. the sixth degree of the melodic minor is called locrian natural 9. altered scale also is very important, as well as all the modes of melodic minor. but first of all, u need to know the bop rules as the palm of your hand. take any parker solo, young, sonny stits, the didnt use all that kind of scales!! and if your hear a rosenwinkels solo, he uses all the "·"!·&$ scales lol, but he has in his hand the bop scales. its a must. if u dont know hoy to walk, youll never be able to fly!

**mr. beaumont** · 09-23-2009, 09:52 AM

my advice--don't touch any of those scales until you have the major scale down. i mean down. you should be able to pick any note at random on the fretboard and play a major scale from it. you should be able to spell any major scale. you should know every chord in a given key.yes, then comes chords. at a minimum, maj7, m7, dom7, half diminished, four inversions each. bare minimum. after that, maj6, 6/9, maj9, m6, m9, 9, 11, 13, 7b5, 7#5, 7b9, 7#9, etc. most of your time as a jazz guitar player will be comping. learn how to comp--nobody will want to play with you if you can't.i'm rereading my post and i'm sounding harsh, but someone just starting out in jazz needs to put scales away for a bit.

**derek** · 09-23-2009, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by sydjester

i think that a player should not think in terms of modes in a diatonic context. if you have a II-m7 V7 to a Imaj7.lets say Dm7 G7 Cmaj7. to think in dorian, then mixolidian and then ionian, its to me a waste of time. you have to learn the modes , but to think it as one scale that in different degrees relay on differents notes. if your ear knows how the major scale works, you will not have to think in 3 different scales, youll hear it! so , more important than remembering all the modes, is to train your ear! learn the chromatic rules. i think that all the mentioned scales here are ok, but the chromatic rules are the basis to the jazz vocabulary. first of all is necesary to learn the bop rules. chromatic rules, pivots, arpegios and chromatic approach, are the basis to everything. to practice scales, is to practice how it works, not only the positions on the fretboard. you must know how it sounds, feel it, then you will be able to use it. when you have all the information interiorized in your mind, ear and hand, your mind will not boggle lol. the sixth degree of the melodic minor is called locrian natural 9. altered scale also is very important, as well as all the modes of melodic minor. but first of all, u need to know the bop rules as the palm of your hand. take any parker solo, young, sonny stits, the didnt use all that kind of scales!! and if your hear a rosenwinkels solo, he uses all the "·"!·&$ scales lol, but he has in his hand the bop scales. its a must. if u dont know hoy to walk, youll never be able to fly!

This is the 3rd post you have written that I really agree with and have enjoyed. However, when you have no paragraph breaks, it is pretty hard to track/read what you write. Good stuff, welcome to the group.

**mr. beaumont** · 09-23-2009, 01:51 PM

you know what it is, derek--certain web browsers, like outdated ones like whatever we got here at work, somehow trump all of your spacing and paragraph breaks once you click "post."

**derek** · 09-23-2009, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

you know what it is, derek--certain web browsers, like outdated ones like whatever we got here at work, somehow trump all of your spacing and paragraph breaks once you click "post."

Really? Even a vBulletin based site? I was unaware. Too bad really, as I tend to skip really long posts without a paragraph break. Too tough to read.