Randy Vincent's Cellular Approach (and other books)

**seaguitar** · 02-08-2017, 11:51 AM

NOTICE: This thread was begun some time ago and has been merged with the new Study Group working on Mr. Vincent's book.
Please see post #22 below for a videotaped intro to the study group. (17 April 2017)

As I'm progressing in my jazz playing, I'm trying to find patterns that can be incorporated into instinct for the language while improvising. Certainly transcribing helps, but it's nice to also find well laid out exercises. Have any of you used the Vincent book? Is the approach one that has payoff -- I.e incorporate dominant cycles that can be transformed into II-V and other progressions? Am curious before I spend a lot of time on it. He doesn't really provide much explanation on why he is presenting things the way he is.

**Doublea A** · 02-08-2017, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by seaguitar

As I'm progressing in my jazz playing, I'm trying to find patterns that can be incorporated into instinct for the language while improvising. Certainly transcribing helps, but it's nice to also find well laid out exercises. Have any of you used the Vincent book? Is the approach one that has payoff -- I.e incorporate dominant cycles that can be transformed into II-V and other progressions? Am curious before I spend a lot of time on it. He doesn't really provide much explanation on why he is presenting things the way he is.

This is a great book. I am planning on starting a study group based on this book later this year.

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**seaguitar** · 02-08-2017, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by Doublea A

This is a great book. I am planning on starting a study group based on this book later this year.

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Great, Will keep an eye out

**likeshisjazz134679** · 02-08-2017, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by seaguitar

As I'm progressing in my jazz playing, I'm trying to find patterns that can be incorporated into instinct for the language while improvising. Certainly transcribing helps, but it's nice to also find well laid out exercises. Have any of you used the Vincent book? Is the approach one that has payoff -- I.e incorporate dominant cycles that can be transformed into II-V and other progressions? Am curious before I spend a lot of time on it. He doesn't really provide much explanation on why he is presenting things the way he is.

Hey, I'm looking for the same thing these days.

I have worked through the first 10 or so pages of the Cellular Approach and feel like I'm just not ready for it yet. It's not the missing piece to my jigsaw, I have to look elsewhere first, and come back to it down the line.

I have Bert Ligons Comprehensive Technique book on order, but I'm pretty sure Building a Jazz Vocabulary (Mike Steinel?) may already contain the answers.

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**seaguitar** · 02-08-2017, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by likeshisjazz134679

Hey, I'm looking for the same thing these days.

I have worked through the first 10 or so pages of the Cellular Approach and feel like I'm just not ready for it yet. It's not the missing piece to my jigsaw, I have to look elsewhere first, and come back to it down the line.

I have Bert Ligons Comprehensive Technique book on order, but I'm pretty sure Building a Jazz Vocabulary (Mike Steinel?) may already contain the answers.

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Thanks, I'll try it and see if I get somewhere. I do have some of Ligon's books ( not the technique one but the theory ones ) and the Steinel one. I have to confess I haven't looked at them in a while and so that's a good suggestion for me to dust off some books and try and find the missing piece

**Rob Fletcher** · 02-08-2017, 02:40 PM

I think any instructional book put out by Sher is highest quality - Chuck really cares about the music. The Randy Vincent books are all amazing/inspiring but also beyond me in the moment. It doesn't stop me from reading them and getting helful stuff each time. I would be all in on a study group when that is started for any of the Randy Vincent books.

**Doublea A** · 02-08-2017, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by seaguitar

Thanks, I'll try it and see if I get somewhere. I do have some of Ligon's books ( not the technique one but the theory ones ) and the Steinel one. I have to confess I haven't looked at them in a while and so that's a good suggestion for me to dust off some books and try and find the missing piece

The Jody Fisher book is also very good. I just joined a couple of study groups so I don't want to overload myself too much right but around April or May I plan on starting a few groups based on the Cellular approach, one on the Jody Fisher book mastering Jazz guitar method-- improvisation and one on Corey Christiansen's versions of the first 3 Aebersold books.

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**Doublea A** · 02-17-2017, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by Rob Fletcher

I think any instructional book put out by Sher is highest quality - Chuck really cares about the music. The Randy Vincent books are all amazing/inspiring but also beyond me in the moment. It doesn't stop me from reading them and getting helful stuff each time. I would be all in on a study group when that is started for any of the Randy Vincent books.

Stay posted Rob. I will start one soon

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**Doublea A** · 04-02-2017, 08:50 AM

Hello All,

I am planning on starting up a Study Group in May 2017 based on Randy Vincent’s book “The Cellular Approach”. I figured that we could give everybody a month to check out the book and decide whether or not they would like to commit to the group. The book explores cellular improvisation. A cell is a four note group with at least 3 chord tones. It is meant to lead to building improvisations that are melodic and follow the chord changes logically.

The Introduction reads: “This book is a collection of things to practice on the guitar that will help to develop the vocabulary of jazz improvisation while simultaneously developing and maintaining single-note technique. . . . the focus will mainly be on “cellular” improvisation, which is using very short melodic cells strung together into longer lines. Once we get to the place where we are using strings of cells for “outside” and “free” playing we will move beyond the cellular concept and into some other approaches. I have included many lines and phrases transcribed from the recordings of several master guitarists to demonstrate the validity of the concepts behind the exercises given.”

There are 5 chapters in this book: Chapter 1 - Cycles and II-V Sequences (247 examples). Chapter 2 - Turnarounds (163 examples). Chapter 3 - Longer Progressions (192 examples). Chapter 4 Outside and Free Playing (113 examples). Chapter 5 - More Outside Lines - All Purpose Licks including Chromatic Intervals, Serial Tone Rows, and 23rd Chords (99 examples)

I have had this book on my shelf for the past 2 years but I have only played the first 5 pages. Maybe a group will help motivate me and others to incorporate this concept into my own playing.

The book does not come with a CD (at least my book didn’t). I use iRealPro for backing tracks.

My plan right now is to learn 10 examples a month. Each example is only 2 to four bars long. I have completed the first 12 with minimal effort. I would estimate that this is a 1 to 2 hour commitment per month. We may want to change this depending on the pace maintained by the group once it gets going, plus at that rate it would take us 6 years and 9 months to complete the book.
Discuss or post your performing of the examples.
Discuss or post where to play the “Cells” on the neck of the guitar. Even though Randy does give some indication where he would like the cells to be played, as we know they are always alternative fingerings.
Discuss or post the application of these “cells” into Jazz Standards. I think that this is the most vital part of the exercise. A concept is only a concept until it is made a reality (I just made that up. It is not a famous quote)
At some point, (maybe at the conclusion) I would combine this with Randy’s other famous book “Line Games” and see how it relates to the playing of great guitarists like Wes Montgomery, Jimmy Raney, Tal Farlow, Pat Martino and Joe Pass

I will be posting this on several threads so I apologize if you seeing this more than once.

Let me know what you think.

**Rob Fletcher** · 04-02-2017, 03:09 PM

I am in!

My preference is for the least amount of content so it can go deeper internally and be truly useful.

I don't care if technically that means it would take 6-9 years. Hopefully we'll all be alive then, enjoying the music.

I also think that it'd be a fun game to figure out what songs the examples are from - he's mysterious about it - "this is from a Joe Pass solo" - it'd be great to hear it context.

Thank you for starting the group.

**seaguitar** · 04-02-2017, 04:19 PM

Count me in also --- thanks for organizing

**Doublea A** · 04-02-2017, 04:38 PM

We will let this group gather some steam and then we will start.

Another member voiced interest in Randy's Book "Drop 2 voicings". I am thinking that perhaps we can combine them. What do you think ?

**Doublea A** · 04-02-2017, 06:28 PM

Hello All,

I am planning on starting up a Study Group in May 2017 based on Randy Vincent’s book “The Cellular Approach”. I figured that we could give everybody a month to check out the book and decide whether or not they would like to commit to the group. The book explores cellular improvisation. A cell is a four note group with at least 3 chord tones. It is meant to lead to building improvisations that are melodic and follow the chord changes logically.

The Introduction reads: “This book is a collection of things to practice on the guitar that will help to develop the vocabulary of jazz improvisation while simultaneously developing and maintaining single-note technique. . . . the focus will mainly be on “cellular” improvisation, which is using very short melodic cells strung together into longer lines. Once we get to the place where we are using strings of cells for “outside” and “free” playing we will move beyond the cellular concept and into some other approaches. I have included many lines and phrases transcribed from the recordings of several master guitarists to demonstrate the validity of the concepts behind the exercises given.”

There are 5 chapters in this book: Chapter 1 - Cycles and II-V Sequences (247 examples). Chapter 2 - Turnarounds (163 examples). Chapter 3 - Longer Progressions (192 examples). Chapter 4 Outside and Free Playing (113 examples). Chapter 5 - More Outside Lines - All Purpose Licks including Chromatic Intervals, Serial Tone Rows, and 23rd Chords (99 examples)

I have had this book on my shelf for the past 2 years but I have only played the first 5 pages. Maybe a group will help motivate me and others to incorporate this concept into my own playing.

The book does not come with a CD (at least my book didn’t). I use iRealPro for backing tracks.

My plan right now is to learn 10 examples a month. Each example is only 2 to four bars long. I have completed the first 12 with minimal effort. I would estimate that this is a 1 to 2 hour commitment per month. We may want to change this depending on the pace maintained by the group once it gets going, plus at that rate it would take us 6 years and 9 months to complete the book.
Discuss or post your performing of the examples.
Discuss or post where to play the “Cells” on the neck of the guitar. Even though Randy does give some indication where he would like the cells to be played, as we know they are always alternative fingerings.
Discuss or post the application of these “cells” into Jazz Standards. I think that this is the most vital part of the exercise. A concept is only a concept until it is made a reality (I just made that up. It is not a famous quote)
At some point, (maybe at the conclusion) I would combine this with Randy’s other famous book “Line Games” and see how it relates to the playing of great guitarists like Wes Montgomery, Jimmy Raney, Tal Farlow, Pat Martino and Joe Pass

I will be posting this on several threads so I apologize if you seeing this more than once.

Let me know what you think.

So far, 4 people have shown interest. A couple of members want to include some of his other books (The Drop 2 Book and the Three Note Voicings Book)

**mikostep** · 04-02-2017, 06:52 PM

I'm in too.

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**seaguitar** · 04-02-2017, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by Doublea A

We will let this group gather some steam and then we will start.

Another member voiced interest in Randy's Book "Drop 2 voicings". I am thinking that perhaps we can combine them. What do you think ?

I've been looking a bit at the first few chapters of the "3 note voicings and beyond" book but have both so I'm open to it. The topics are quite different ( from looking at the TOC ), but developing a chord vocabulary simultaneously isn't a bad idea, as long as we can make progress without steam coming out of our ears.

**Doublea A** · 04-02-2017, 08:39 PM

Off to a good start y'all. We will give others a chance to decide and join but in the meantime, I am going to refresh my memory on "Cellular Approach" and look at the other books and come up with of combining the "curriculum" of study for this group.

I need to put my Music Degree and 22 years of teaching experience to good use. LOL

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**MGranada** · 04-03-2017, 05:04 AM

Hi i would be interested also in this study group. Thx

**DanOwens** · 04-03-2017, 05:12 AM

I've got a lot of the theory down from my experiences as an upright player, but I'm keen to employ it on guitar and I'm hoping the Cellular Approach might be what I need so I'll try this study group idea too!

**dingusmingus** · 04-03-2017, 03:51 PM

This is a cool book. I've been using it this year, and have gotten through about 50 of the exercises. I don't know that any of the lines have shown up in my playing yet, but it is also quite good for fretboard familiarity. By playing the same line in (at least) 2 fingerings and each string set, it really helps you get around!

**Doublea A** · 04-04-2017, 08:53 PM

I am starting to plan for this group. I am looking at the first 10 - 12 exercises for May. I am also looking at combining this study with Randy's other books "Jazz Guitar Voicings. Volume 1: The Drop 2 Book." and "Three Note Voicings and beyond". These books are not needed for participation in Study Group but I always feel that I need to round out my melodic knowledge with a harmonic supplement.

In an earlier post, I mistakenly credited Randy with the authoring of "Jazz Guitar Lines of the Greats (Wes Montgomery, Jimmy Raney, Tal Farlow, Pat Martino, Joe Pass)". This book was actually written by Steve Briody. Once again, this book is not needed for participation in this Study Group but I have found found some very practical licks taken from recordings from the above mentioned artists that seem to nicely compliment Randy's Cellular Approach. They seem to be putting the Cellular Approach into action if you will.

I also want to infuse some of these exercises into Jazz Standards. That is, after all the ultimate goal of learning these exercises.

I will be putting together a short video soon to introduce myself and the first month's exercises. I welcome your comments now and throughout the duration of this group.

**Doublea A** · 04-04-2017, 09:01 PM

I am starting to plan for this group. I am looking at the first 10 - 12 exercises for May. I am also looking at combining this study with Randy's other books "Jazz Guitar Voicings. Volume 1: The Drop 2 Book." and "Three Note Voicings and beyond". These books are not needed for participation in Study Group but I always feel that I need to round out my melodic knowledge with a harmonic supplement.

In an earlier post, I mistakenly credited Randy with the authoring of "Jazz Guitar Lines of the Greats (Wes Montgomery, Jimmy Raney, Tal Farlow, Pat Martino, Joe Pass)". This book was actually written by Steve Briody. Once again, this book is not needed for participation in this Study Group but I have found found some very practical licks taken from recordings from the above mentioned artists that seem to nicely compliment Randy's Cellular Approach. They seem to be putting the Cellular Approach into action if you will.

I also want to infuse some of these exercises into Jazz Standards. That is, after all the ultimate goal of learning these exercises.

I will be putting together a short video soon to introduce myself and the first month's exercises. I welcome your comments now and throughout the duration of this group.

**Rob Fletcher** · 04-05-2017, 09:12 AM

That sounds great. Wish lists - irealpro tracks to use shared, also anyone who feels like recording the exercises we're doing and sharing mp3s. It helps me hear things and also ear train while driving, which I do a lot of.