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I know that great players can do it. That is, play a strong line against any harmony.
But, if I try, say, to play the melody of Misty or Donna Lee or whatever, I can't make it sound good over unrelated changes. Strong melodies, right? Getting them to work over unrelated changes must require something more. I think it may be the length of time that you're outside the changes. That is, you have to come back inside at the right time. Too soon, and the outside note sounds like a clam. Too late, and it sounds like you're soloing over the wrong tune.
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11-17-2016 04:56 AM
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Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
Not all of this stuff is value free if that makes any sense.
Some players will acquire language direct from records, others will use patterns, or some other approach.
But it all fits into this overarching concept- tension, release and the rhythmic forward motion concept. It's this interplay between rhythm and melodic/harmonic tension and resolution which to me makes the music swing...
For me this type of idea is best used with progressions which are based around one key (rhythm changes), stick around a few long chords (so what) or are highly chromatic and modulate anyway (Giant steps.) and to me this has to do with actual time in seconds, not hoe many beats a chord lasts for so much.
So, Giant steps slow requires more fidelity to the changes than giant steps fast.
Ballad playing is another discipline and for me has a lot to do with the melody of the song... These ideas would be used as surface decoration.... It's a bit like double time in ballads... Too much and it spoils the mood.Last edited by christianm77; 11-17-2016 at 05:22 AM.
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I don't know about the other one but it seems to me in 'Understanding' he's just playing minor over major, the old blues trick. Over the A maj he's playing A mel and E harm.
Playing Amaj11 as 576755 means there's no real C# in there. Both scales work fine, especially if you include a natural D as well in the E harm run. Lovely sound.
I have a feeling he just continued the D#/Eb into the Ab bar because it was thereLast edited by ragman1; 11-17-2016 at 12:06 PM.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
VladanMovies & CCC - Car Camera Clips: VladanMovies playing notes of G major over FMaj7 chord vamp
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When I get back from Japan (clang!) I may spend some time exploring and demonstrating this technique... Seems like a good direction to explore.
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If you mean to demonstrate "my technique", I hope you'll make it so to include the link to the source.
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Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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Originally Posted by Vladan
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Originally Posted by VladanOriginally Posted by christianm77Originally Posted by VladanOriginally Posted by christianm77
Last edited by Vladan; 11-17-2016 at 09:45 AM. Reason: ie [U]quote[/U] (the changes)
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by Vladan
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Here's Jerry Bergonzi talking about playing 'wrong' notes but making them sound right.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
VladanMovies BlogSpot
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Originally Posted by Vladan
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So, when you say that after coming back from Japan you may spend some time exploring "this tehnique", "this technique" means "stuff you have been posting about ...". You have been posting about it for pages already, but still, at some time in future you might decide to explore it. Sorry to nit pick, nothing personal, but I'm just too stupid to understand what technique "this technique" is?
Sent from VladanMovies @ YouTube
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Originally Posted by Vladan
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I'm not sure which thread to put this on.
There was a quote somewhere by some famous player that said 'it's only about getting back to the tonic, the rest doesn't matter' - or something like that, I can't find it.
So I thought okay, let's do it. Corcovado was around so I got a backing track and played it in one go only using the F major scale but with some Dm and Am blues (which is still all F major) and lots of passing notes between scale tones.
It worked, and I'm not sure it was a fluke either. It probably only works on fast stuff, of course.
The other thing is that it would be fine for a gig only doing a couple of choruses. Here I had to do far too many so only listen to two
Apologies for quality. And I can actually play it the proper way too!
Last edited by ragman1; 11-19-2016 at 10:52 AM.
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I have heard a very strong player talk about "targets". Meaning, your whole trip into outer space has to land, logically, on something harmonically recognizable. For example, in a blues, going into outer space for the first four bars, but then hitting a straight IV7 arpeggio in bar 5. What makes it work is if those first four bars really sound like they're leading to the lick in bar 5.
A couple of years ago I was playing a bossa nova arrangement and it turned out that I had a different chart than the rest of the band. My chart had some fancy reharmonization, but I didn't know it. I played over the changes on my chart and, for the first time ever, I heard myself sound like a sophisticated jazz player.
I've tried to recapture it by soloing on reharmonized changes while the bass and piano are playing the original changes. I've had limited success. I have found it harder to do than it sounds. But, that's what some great players do. They're putting in additional changes (in their minds) and playing an "inside" solo over the mental changes. If the mental changes flow really well and sound hip, so will the solo, probably.
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Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
Moffa Mithra
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