Official Barry Harris Thread

[Christian Miller]

So what I'm wondering is - is Alan going to post The Diagram again? ;-)

[A. Kingstone]

So what I'm wondering is - is Alan going to post The Diagram again? ;-)

If you commit to that book I suggested.

Now get yourself some mushy peas and stop taking the piss.

[Navdeep_Singh]

62 pages, and BH said, in that 1994 four hour video with our hero on guitar no less: “the most important thing in music is rhythm”.

The thing I get from BH is seriously ORGANIZED MUSICAL STUFF that I can use with songs that allows me to get with the most important thing in music.

Or as Pat Metheny said in a long interview last year: ““The most important thing (in music) is FEEL. It’s everything. All the rest you can fill it in”.

BH provides that fill, in a systematic and organized way. So we can get on with the most important thing in music.

[grahambop]

Just came across this episode by Chris Park, I like this one. Cool idea where he recommends practising lines going from a given chord, to every possible dominant chord (i.e. all 12 of them), because every one of these moves can be found in a standard somewhere. (He gives examples.)

Seems obvious now, but I hadn’t really thought of it in that way before.

[rlrhett]

If you are talking about comping, ii->V is not typically the same family. Using the same family is one variation but more commonly:

Lets say Dmin7 | G7 | Cmaj7,
Dmin7: F6dim
G7: Dmin6Dim or Abmin6Dim
Cmaj7:C6dim or G6/C6

I guess I'm confused. Isn't the F6 chord in the same family as the Dmin6? As in the family of F-Ab-B-D?

The Ab and B are raised for the F6, but only the Ab is raised for the Dmin6? Or we raise the F to F# for the Abmin6, but also from the same family. This is what I understood by "brothers and sisters".

[Tal_175]

I guess I'm confused. Isn't the F6 chord in the same family as the Dmin6? As in the family of F-Ab-B-D?

The Ab and B are raised for the F6, but only the Ab is raised for the Dmin6? Or we raise the F to F# for the Abmin6, but also from the same family. This is what I understood by "brothers and sisters".

In that case I misunderstood you. Yes, F6 and Dmin6 are in the same family. The brothers and sisters relationship is a neat abstraction but I don't find it practically useful. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't think it's a necessary reference for applying the 6th diminished concepts to tunes.

Do you explicitly think about the brothers and sisters abstraction when harmonizing tunes in BH style?

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

This just came in today, so if you are in the NYC area ...

Workshops – The Barry Harris Institute of Jazz

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

In that case I misunderstood you. Yes, F6 and Dmin6 are in the same family. The brothers and sisters relationship is a neat abstraction but I don't find it practically useful. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't think it's a necessary reference for applying the 6th diminished scales to tunes.

Do you explicitly think about the brothers and sisters abstraction when harmonizing tunes in BH style?

Correct me if I am wrong but aren't the families families of four dominants? Neither F6 nor Dmin6 are dominants although one of them can represent a 7/sus4 and the other a 7/9 resp. a 7/b9/b5 chord.

[Tal_175]

Correct me if I am wrong but aren't the families families of four dominants? Neither F6 nor Dmin6 are dominants although one of them can represent a 7/sus4 and the other a 7/9 resp. a 7/b9/b5 chord.

Brothers and sisters are related chords minor thirds apart and share a diminished. Here E diminished is shared. Check out Alan's book p.39.

[rlrhett]

In that case I misunderstood you. Yes, F6 and Dmin6 are in the same family. The brothers and sisters relationship is a neat abstraction but I don't find it practically useful. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't think it's a necessary reference for applying the 6th diminished scales to tunes.

Do you explicitly think about the brothers and sisters abstraction when harmonizing tunes in BH style?

I do, or at least I tend to when first arranging a tune. I mostly play solo guitar, so we are talking trying to drop some chords under the melody. Nothing very sophisticated. As I'm sure it's clear, I'm no master at any of this. But at the very least I try out as many min6 chords as I can in a family as a 7 chord substitution until I find one I like. Same thing with a minor ii - V. Occasionally I see if the IV chord can be substituted by a 7b5 of the same family. For eg the Dm7 - G7 - Cmaj thing you were talking about might sound ok as a f7b5 - Dmin6 - C6, depending on the melody.

If anything, this abstraction gives me too much freedom. I'll forget which "sibling" I intended to use and will just, through muscle memory, grab something else from the family. That often sounds OK, or even good, but soon I'll get lost in the tune. Is the next move within the family or to a different family? Worse is when a harmonize a note that actually falls as the "odd man out" dim family. I'm not sure if that is clear; but, for example, a Maj6 chord has the root and the sixth from the "parent" dim family and the 3rd and 5th have been moved up one semitone. As far as I can tell, there are no standard chords in BH's harmony universe that have notes from all three dim families. Taking a note from the "odd man out" is called "borrowing", is considered inherently unstable and is quickly resolved.

All this confusion means I would like to be able to look at a score and easily see which family a chord or chord sequence belongs to and when we shift. I suppose it is a matter of trying to work it through a ton of tunes --and I am trying to do that -- to come up with some structure for myself.

[P4guitar]

Dmin6 = G9

[Tal_175]

I do, or at least I tend to when first arranging a tune. I mostly play solo guitar, so we are talking trying to drop some chords under the melody. Nothing very sophisticated. As I'm sure it's clear, I'm no master at any of this. But at the very least I try out as many min6 chords as I can in a family as a 7 chord substitution until I find one I like. Same thing with a minor ii - V. Occasionally I see if the IV chord can be substituted by a 7b5 of the same family. For eg the Dm7 - G7 - Cmaj thing you were talking about might sound ok as a f7b5 - Dmin6 - C6, depending on the melody.

I have studied BH approach in the past to some extend but my approach to solo guitar, comping and chord substitution isn't entirely based on BH by any stretch of the imagination. I'm not familiar with the application of the families to chord substitution in the specific way you described above. Maybe you are way deeper into this stuff than me. I don't remember seeing it in Alan's book either. Can you point me to where you learnt this application?

The way I practiced this is, say over the ii chord (say Dmin7), you use the F6dim scale for the voicings and connect them to Abmin6dim voicings over the G7, then into C6. Variation in voicings can be created with devices like borrowing, 6th on the 5th, long and short etc. Borrowing is a way the find chord substitutions. I'm not saying that's the end of it but that's the end of my exploration of this approach. I use a variety of other approaches for chord voicings, substitutions, passing chords and movements as well.

[Navdeep_Singh]

Here’s a good primer on Barry’s 5432 phrase rules and how to make music out of them.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

Brothers and sisters are related chords minor thirds apart and share a diminished. Here E diminished is shared. Check out Alan's book p.39.

[Tal_175]

Don't have time to watch all these videos right now. Not sure what your point is?

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

Don't have time to watch all these videos right now. Not sure what your point is?

My point is in those videos. They all say the same basically. Watch them later or not. Up to you.

[Tal_175]

My point is in those videos. They all say the same basically. Watch them later or not. Up to you.

Do you have Allan's book?

[Christian Miller]

Correct me if I am wrong but aren't the families families of four dominants? Neither F6 nor Dmin6 are dominants although one of them can represent a 7/sus4 and the other a 7/9 resp. a 7/b9/b5 chord.

You clearly haven't stared into the heart of the Diagram.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

Do you have Allan's book?

Yes and I have taken the time to look at p.39.

[Tal_175]

Yes and I have taken the time to look at p.39.

Great. Also check the page 20 if you still have doubts about at least Allan's take on the concept.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

You clearly haven't stared into the heart of the Diagram.

The heart of the diagram is the resolution of the square consisting of the family of the four dominants G7 - E7 - Db7 - Bb7. As described by three people in the three videos. Isaak Raz would rarely ever miss a NYC workshop, Shan was very close to Barry as well.

[Navdeep_Singh]

It’s not just family of 4 dominants. Why can’t the brothers and sisters all play with their cousins as well? One big backyard, lots of splashes of color, definitely not paint by numbers!

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

More Workshops from the BH Institute

Barry Harris Harmony Workshops – The Barry Harris Institute of Jazz

[Navdeep_Singh]

Modular Barry Harris Minor Blues Moves: to get to the Tonic minor 6 and then to get to the iv-minor


ivm6 —-IV°-———>im6——b7m6–b7°-ivm6




Eg: in Cminor: Fm6-F°-Cm6-Bbm6-Bb°-Fm6

[pamosmusic]

Just got Alan's book in the mail.