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Ms. Jordan sat to my left when I heard Barry Harris with Jimmy Slyde in 2005.
She was kind enough to share some turkey basting tips with me.
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08-31-2022 08:37 AM
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I think she is a very nice and funny person. I only know her from interviews like the following one from 2002 (BTW “Fillius Jazz Archive at Hamilton College” is a great channel with tons of interviews). She is a great storyteller and I guess a great teacher. At around 31 min a heartbreaking story starts where she talks about racism in the USA — what it meant to grow up with African-American friends (Tommy Flanagan, Barry Harris, Kenny Burrell), hanging around with African-American musicians and having a daughter with an an African-American (Sheila was married to Duke Jordan, composer of “Jordu”). But she never lost her sense of humor and laughs a lot in this interview. Later she also talks about the state of jazz education as well.
Originally Posted by A. Kingstone
20 years later at 94 she is still lively enough to climb up the stairs to Emmet Cohen’s place to meet with some young students of Barry’s.
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New Video from Thomas Echols
The “ugly duckling” he is talking about is AFAIK his own term for the one minor 6th chord from the Family of Four that is containing the maj7th of the V chord, e.g. in C E7 is from the same Family of Four as G7 and if you sub E7 with its important minor B–6 it contains F#, the 9th of E7 and maj7th of G7.
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- Some background through interviews with and regarding Barry Harris
- another interview with PDF transcript on this site
- Another interview on AllAboutJazz
- REANIMATING DISSONANCE: CULTIVATING THE ANTECEDENTS OF BARRY HARRIS’ CONCEPT OFMOVEMENT AS A MULTIDIMENSIONAL PEDAGOGICAL TOOL FOR ONTARIO POST-SECONDARY JAZZ CURRICULA — what a title for an dissertation LOL
- Interview on the Jake Feinberg Show
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This guy is going to town with BH. Originally Posted by Bop Head
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New vids by Shan Verma (a.k.a. JazzSkills)
and Thomas Echols (a.k.a. The Labyrinth of Limitations)
There is an interesting comment below the video where s/o asks Thomas how many hours he spends on practicing and how long he had been playing before getting into BH.Last edited by Boss Man Zwiebelsohn; 09-19-2022 at 10:43 PM.
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Working BH on bye bye blackbird and witchcraft right now.
Last edited by Bobby Timmons; 09-20-2022 at 02:22 AM.
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great thread !
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New video by Yoko Kawaguchi in the vein of the BH vocal classes (song: “Wonder Why”) — including eartraining / intonation exercises as warmup
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It’s amazing that one of the most popular threads here is related to teaching’s from a piano player. Yet I could retire, again, every time I read a thread bashing a, piano player. Head scratching.
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What exactly are you refering to? Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
[…] Yet I could retire, again, every time I read a thread bashing a, piano player. Head scratching.[…]
Anyway for me it’s the teachings of a musician. And he highly estimated guitar players. He grew up with Kenny Burrell. He taught Roni Ben-Hur (who taught Chris Parks a.k.a “Things I Learned From Barry Harris”) and Pasquale Grasso. He taught Ofer Landsberg obviously. Jens Larsen attended his workshops in La Hague and uses Barry’s approaches in his teaching. Our Christian Miller and David B went to workshops in London.
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I came back to this site just to checkout this thread, as I’m back to working on BH stuff. I remembered a bit, forgot a bit. Need to internalize it to songs.
I really like that guy who looks like Garcia, circa 1970. People still watching the “Things I learned from BH” guy? I was today years old when I realized that drop 2, drop 3 and drop 2 and 4 should be seamlessly integrated to create interesting oblique contrary motion. I mean, Pasquale does that all the time, now that I think about it.
So, more from the Garcia ‘70 guy: I was able to follow what he means by “off chord”, tritone’s minor, ugly duckling. All that stuff.
Do Ronnie Ben Hurr and the Canadian guy whose excellent book I have but can’t remember the name right now get any royalties from the BH YouTube cottage industry that done blowed up? LOL
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Embarrassingly I forgot to mention our Alan Kingston in my last post who wrote “The Barry Harris Harmonic Method for Guitar” and played on Howard Rees’ BH workshop DVDs. Originally Posted by NSJ
The “Garcia ’70” guy Thomas Echols a.k.a. “The Labyrinth of Limitations” meanwhile has 137 videos on his YT channel. As I have already mentioned earlier his classical technique was for sure helpful in working out all that contrary motion stuff systematically. The only thing I dislike sometimes is him taking John Lee Hooker-ish liberties of stretching and compressing the form.
There is BTW a new TILFBH video out — episode 123, also dealing with contrary motions. (Chris Parks and Thomas Echols have become friends and regularly comment each others videos.)
Regarding royalties: I think BH always considered his teachings to be in the public domain*. He was happy I guess to know that some people would carry on the bebop flame. (Which of course does not mean that you cannot make money with it.) The only sad thing is that “Barry Harris” has become a clickbait with tons of videos that do not go any further than a superficial introduction into the basic concept of the sixth diminished scale(s).
* If you take a course with the heirs of Charlie Banacos you have to pay a lot of money and sign a confidentiality agreement AFAIK.
_____
BTW one scale that gets rarely talked about is BH’s seventh flat five diminished scale combining a dominant 7/b5 chord with a diminished (e.g. G7/b5 + Ao) which has a lot to do with the whole-tone scale as well.
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As the Canadian Guy (nice to see you Navdeep) I'm uncomfortable discussing finances.
When I was writing I asked Barry if I could use his name in the title and consulted Howard Rees, my publisher what would be fair remuneration.
When I excitedly handed my hot off the presses copy to Barry in 2006 he leafed through it and said "that's no jive".
He gave us so much.
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Hey, Andrew, Nice to see you, here, again. He sure did, he gave us everything, it’s hard to imagine someone being more seriously passionate and caring about the utter breathtaking beauty and majesty of this music, from the gut bucket that is the outhouse to the fine decor of the penthouse. The man toured tirelessly for decades, giving us all a link to the Masters of this music. We are all so grateful. Originally Posted by A. Kingstone
“That’s no jive” is just about the reaction I’d expect from him. Honest, forthright, and compassionate, in the way people who don’t put up with B.S. can convey it. Hope you are well.
My re-interest in BH is to really examine the MOVEABLE parts of his chord voicings, to try to design a flexible but wonderful sounding way to convey improvised chord solos that can go from the small to the big and back, interchangeably, that don’t lose the rhythmic momentum. This reminds me that I didn’t really study his “Borrowed note concept” as much as really needed to. And watching that video of Garcia ‘70 reminded me I never really learned my drop 2 and 4s. Weakness!
It will remedied. Hope you are well and thank you for your book. I’ve moved several times and still have it. I’m going to get it out for the chord solo aspect I really want to get into my playing. Cheers !
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Pianist envy, as Freud would have it… Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
It’s amazing that one of the most popular threads here is related to teaching’s from a piano player. Yet I could retire, again, every time I read a thread bashing a, piano player. Head scratching.
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oh is that Alan with the strat? I had no idea! Originally Posted by Bop Head
Tbh I get a bit sick of it. As a YouTuber myself I started doing BH videos a few years before most of the current guys and the big Barry wave hit, and it’s nice because people have sometimes said I got them into him so I feel I had some small role in that. Ten years ago people were not interested at all.The “Garcia ’70” guy Thomas Echols a.k.a. “The Labyrinth of Limitations” meanwhile has 137 videos on his YT channel. As I have already mentioned earlier his classical technique was for sure helpful in working out all that contrary motion stuff systematically. The only thing I dislike sometimes is him taking John Lee Hooker-ish liberties of stretching and compressing the form.
There is BTW a new TILFBH video out — episode 123, also dealing with contrary motions. (Chris Parks and Thomas Echols have become friends and regularly comment each others videos.)
Regarding royalties: I think BH always considered his teachings to be in the public domain*. He was happy I guess to know that some people would carry on the bebop flame. (Which of course does not mean that you cannot make money with it.) The only sad thing is that “Barry Harris” has become a clickbait with tons of videos that do not go any further than a superficial introduction into the basic concept of the sixth diminished scale(s).
Otoh I feel the current big hitters are much more knowledgable and dedicated to the approach (and Chris’s case a lot more organised too haha) than I am and it feels like the right thing to move away from BH content unless I have something specific to offer. (i never really went that far into the harmonic approach either, being more drawn to the line building.) I’m also more interested in finding my own synthesised approach.
But the thing is BH content means clicks now. So here we are.
it’s interesting how some jazz YouTubers who used to be quite dismissive Barry are now much more interested in him, tbf some I think for the right reasons.
i reckon exactly the same thing will happen with the partimento stuff.
there is such a hustling vibe from so much jazz edu type stuff haha. The Banacos stuff is super interesting though so it’s a shame.* If you take a course with the heirs of Charlie Banacos you have to pay a lot of money and sign a confidentiality agreement AFAIK.
I remember Barry saying he really liked this scale but hadn’t worked on it that much (!)BTW one scale that gets rarely talked about is BH’s seventh flat five diminished scale combining a dominant 7/b5 chord with a diminished (e.g. G7/b5 + Ao) which has a lot to do with the whole-tone scale as well.
His least favourite was the 7-dim. I’m with him on that tbh.
It’s interesting his language on them - it’s like he didn’t feel they as his invention. IIRC As far as he was concerned Bach and Chopin had those scales.
7b5-dim is a coool one
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Yeah, it is what it is. Videos seem to divide into 2 categories at least. Click bait-y intro this is how you alternate between a 6 chord and a dim chord, and people with actual applications and music content to share. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
I'm getting the hang of it. It's probably easier on keys. I don't use it all the time and I don't always alternate chord, dim, inversion, dim forever. But it's really cool once you get the hang of to throw in a few to add harmonic movement, or use melodically. Sometimes I will stay on the main chord and inversions, then go to the dim for a bit, then back rather than strictly alternating. My teacher taught me how to use chord melody only using the diatonic inversions, so it seems to work well to have that as a base and then throw in some BH for effect rather than trying to dominate BH all the time.I’m more interested in finding my own synthesised approach.
I use that. I think it's cool how it leads with a dim into the dom and the dom sounds like it's supposed to be leading somewhere too. I just alternate main chord, dim, main chord inversion, dim whatever chord it is. No contemplating about the actual proper relationship to the scale.His least favourite was the 7-dim. I’m with him on that tbh.
I agree. It feels self evident to me that it's either essential language or extremely useful for jazz. Because as a jazzer, you want to get to the level where you're flowing with harmony with the same command as you would single line.It’s interesting his language on them - it’s like he didn’t feel they as his invention.
You see the revelation with the kids, at 21:30, where BH shows them how it kind of is self evident. They all kind of see how it's really important in jazz to be able to flow with harmony melody.
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A nice one also for that D7/b5 (second chord) in A Train. It shares the Eo with the following D–7 so you could either connect via that or via Ebo (diminished from above) which I maybe even like better. Anyway I love the move from a dominant 7/b5 to a rootless 7/b9 with natural 5th (= diminished). Originally Posted by Christian Miller
The 7/b5 inversions with the 3rd resp. 7th in the bass are pretty uncomfortable as drop 3 with the lowest note on the sixth string e.g. G7/b5/B: — 7 x 5 6 6 x — so I play a rootless 7/b5/9 voicing instead — 7 x 7 6 6 x —.
This just lead me to a very comfortable version with just two grips, e.g. for Gb7/b5:
2 x 2 1 1 x
4 x 3 4 5 x
6 x 6 5 5 x
7 x 6 7 6 x
8 x 8 7 7 x
10 x 9 10 9 x
12 x 12 11 11 x
13 x 12 13 12 x
14 x 14 13 13 x
which lead me to (now leaving the 7/b5 dim)
14 x 14 13 13
13 x 12 13 12
12 x 12 11 11
11 x 10 11 10
10 x 10 9 9 etc.
so many possibilities …
BTW I often use a more ergonomic voicing e.g. the maj7th drop4 w/ root in bass on string group 2-3-4-5 instead of maj6th drop4 w/ root in bass with its stretch between 2nd and 3rd finger.
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Those people who studied under Frans Elsen at The Hague (one of the European pianists explicitely mentioned by Barry Harris several times) who are able to instantly (or at least almost instantly) play what he calls for in an exhausting several days lasting demanding masterclass — I would not call them “kids”. Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
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BTW do you know the books by Dennis Sandole’s brother Adolph? They are available as affordable PDFs and are a nice supplement to Barry Harris and Lennie Tristano regarding an old school approach to Jazz. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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elsen organized these workshops, but not all players on these vids are his students. these workshops were open to students from other schools, with piano teachers like rob madna or henk elkerbout. Originally Posted by Bop Head
thóse classes were fun. barry was chainsmoking and offering students actual $ for playing lines correctly and fast.
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Thanks for the correction. In one of the Elsen videos Barry adresses a teacher called Baldwin or Baudoin directly. I saw him mentioned somewhere (it was mot the French Philippe Baudoin which was what I thaught first) and I was googling for him today but could not find his name again. Can you tell me who that was? Originally Posted by djg
The chain smoking is very obvious in all Elsen videos and in the longer videos posted recently by Alec Katz. And the dollar bills — isn’t that even in the Howard Rees DVDs?
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Boudewijn Leeuwenberg. at the time theory teacher at the conservatory. you can see him on many of these workshop vids taking notes. Originally Posted by Bop Head
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To be fair, Barry put out paywalled material also, and Richie Zellon, a CB heir, publishes free content in addition to his paywalled bebop course, which is excellent, btw, and well worth the small sum he charges. Originally Posted by Bop Head
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