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Yep. And also Barry likes to name things good. Don’t let him get started on the half whole scale
Originally Posted by Tal_175
I think the church mode names of scales represents a teaching pedagogy that he disagrees with. He finds it too complex, academic and not the way how the original masters thought about their music.
That is probably true for bebop, but not so much for more modern jazz. I reckon he dislikes jazz styles that came after bebop and hard bob as well, but I'm not sure.
This is a bit surprising to me though. I think of jazz as a very progressive type of music where players constantly re-invent themselves, study their music and innovate. Had Charlie Parker lived longer, I doubt he would have still played pure bebop in the 60's and 70's. On the other hand Louis Armstrong thought Charlie Parker and his gang ruined jazz while Barry Harris thinks Miles Davis ruined jazz
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05-07-2019 04:36 PM
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He usually has clear reasons for naming things as he does. It can be a bit confusing sometimes.
OTOH the Greek names are dumb. But here we are.
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What's the Barry Harris procedure for practicing playing arpeggios over changes?
Last edited by rintincop; 05-09-2019 at 01:53 PM.
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Rtfm
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Originally Posted by tamirgal
"you start a phrase on the 2nd of the dominant, put two half steps till reaching the 7, from there play a major7 arpeggio up, now you'r on the 6th, go down the scale to the third of the dominant, then up the diminished arpeggio...etc, etc "
This should be our goal, this is a good example of how to connect the scales and arps, and not so much just the scale practice.
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arpeggios are part of Barry's ABCs. Once you know the scale outline for a certain standard, you can (and probably should) practice any of the ABCs in the context of that standards. So that could be applying arpeggios or chords, or 5-4-3-2 or any of your licks to the scale outline of the changes.. Originally Posted by rintincop
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Anyone?? Originally Posted by Petimar
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Down from the 7th is a Barry Harris way to play scales that I prefer. Up from the root sounds like a drill to me. Down from the 7th sounds more melodic to me. Run continuous scales down and up by inserting the half steps when needed to keep chord tones on the beat. That’s most of the scale balancing act. Of course freely mix in double and triple enclosures, arpeggios, and don’t forget the 4321 get out of trouble phrases. And some triplets.
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Bud Powell’s transcription on Celia:
This is bebop supreme!
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This is awesome Alan!!
Thank you for the vid
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Alan is the man.
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Originally Posted by tamirgal
Trying to Bud Powell at 90% of the speed. Almost got it:
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Thanks Alan.
I've been messing around with that idea (descending single note line harmonized with 3,6,4,7 then repeat same at Tritone) but I can't seem to figure out the principle behind it. How can I develop different lines? I've tried a few, some going down, some going up, and then trying out different chords but I feel like I'm shooting in the dark.
I'm following the principles of using 2nd inversion to Root chords with a simple diatonic line. I've been using the template you used of skipping the 2,5,1 and going to the 4,7. I've been trying different chord degrees depending on the melody I'm trying to use.
Nothing I come up with sounds as cool as the one played in the video.
Has anybody had success with making this idea their own?
Larry
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Originally Posted by podink
Larry: My advice is to just persevere. Try the example in different keys resolving to the one after playing the tri-tone move. It's new to me also so I'm not using it in songs on the fly just yet. The good thing about practicing it over and over is that it sounds good, eventually you can work it into an arrangement.
I was messing around last night with the same concept using Drop 2&4 chords where the outside interval of a 13th moves.
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Thanks Alan. I'll try the Drop 2&4 chords with the outside 13th. If you're working your way through this too, it's validating to me that I'm not too thick. Heh! Originally Posted by A. Kingstone
Larry
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I made this to show Alan after he made his video-- forgot to post here. The first thing I heard with this movement is Everything Happens to Me. Stuck out like a sore thumb
So there's one application
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I know the exact moment you mean: Originally Posted by joe2758
Piano at 0:17 secs
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Sitting here at work, decided to type up a scalar and arp exercise that allows for many many permutations, using the "family of four" dominants, scales up and down, arps and down, one dominant 7th to another to another, until resolving to C Major.
G7: G A B C D E F G
Bb7: Bb C D Eb F G Ab Bb
Db7: Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb Cb Db
E7: E F# G# A B C# D E
Practice: G7 up arp from the R, 7th, 5th 3rd, G7 scale down to whatever using half step rules, to sub arp up, sub chord scale down
Initial basic Permutations (general trajectory of line: arp up, scale down, arp up scale down
arp down scale up, arp down, scale up and down
Sequence: G7, Bb7-Db7-E7
G7-Bb7-E7-Db7
G7-Db7-Bb7-E7
G7-Db7-E7-Bb7
G7-E7- Bb7-Db7
G7-E7-Db7-Bb7Last edited by NSJ; 06-25-2019 at 11:04 AM.
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Anyone have questions for me to ask at the Howard Rees workshop in August? so far I have
1.Are there additional or alternate 5-4-3-2 phrases?
2.Examples of using the dominant dim scale?
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here's phrases from Howard Rees' site that would be great for doing scale outlines.
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Hi Joe. There are two things I've never been satisfied I found the answer to: Originally Posted by joe2758
1. Are there any rules or guidelines that BH has for using chromatics on ascending lines? It can't always be triads/chords up -- scales down. I know I hear the odd chromatic tone on a ascending line.
2. I very much like and use F6-Fdim-Bb6 "movement" rather than Cmin7-F7-Bbmaj7 with its two voices moving stepwise to resolution. It is especially nice where the "standard" approach would be a quick ii-V. Is there a similar figure for Dm7b5-G7alt-Cmin7? I can see Dm7b5 dropping one voice to make a Ddim/G7b9 thing, but no slick voice leading way to get to the Cm from there. Is there a BH approved move there I should know?
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Here is my little rant.
I see Barry Harris's teachings as a well selected set of tools among the broader elements and devices of the jazz language and harmony. I don't see it as self sufficient, alternative pedagogical universe. But it seems to demand to be treated that way. The mysteries of Barry Harris teachings will unfold over time and those who pursue it relentlessly will be rewarded for their loyalty and faith.
Let me give an example. How would you comp tonic C Maj 7 with movement?
Here are two descriptions. Identical concepts. One (to me) cryptic, the other conventional.
- BH school:
o First let's introduce an original theoretical construct called major 6 diminished scale. It's a major scale with a b6 or alternatively Maj 6 chord + it's "related" diminished.
o Now observe the diatonic chords of this scale. Same maj6 and dim chords alternating in different inversions.
o Next the catchy rule 6th on the 5th. Yes, you can play major 6 starting on the fifth of the chord, G Maj 6. Now use the 6 dim scale of this chord to create movement.
o You can also do the same starting on the root of the chord. C maj 6th.
- Same concept but using the standard theory (arrangement 101):
o Tonic C maj has two functional substitutes. A min 7 and E min 7. All three share the same tonic function.
o Any chord can be preceded by it's dominant to add interest and movement, this concept is called secondary dominant.
o So over Cmaj 7. You can play <E7 Amin 7> or <B7 Emin 7>
o Secondary dominants of minor chords are often altered. In particular b9 works really well.
o Dominant b9 without root is just the diminished 7 chord.
o Now we got <F dim Amin7> and <C dim Emin7>
o You can always play inversions of a chord and move it up and down to create movement.
Obviously Gmaj6 = Emin7 and Cmaj6 = Amin7.
So, which of the two explanations above is clearer? I have to admit, I haven't found a satisfying conceptual or practical use for the 6dim scales to prefer the first explanation. The concept almost suggests existence of an alternative unifying, elegant jazz theory. But it's proven too elusive and mysterious to me. I know there are other applications, but not strong enough to warrant abandoning the way the rest of the world looks at and talks about music. Same as brothers and sisters view of chromatic, whole tone and diminished scales. I'm not seeing a compelling connection beyond 12 being divisible by 3 and 4.
I learned a lot of valuable insights from studying Barry Harris's teaching. In fact the concept above is something I learned from Barry Harris. I just had to translate it to standard theory to make sense of it. I cannot recommend his teachings enough. They are often simple generative concepts that you can woodshed to no end.
I'll continue studying Barry Harris among other things, but I'll translate them to standard theory and make sense of them in the more conventional ways until someone makes a convincing case for his constructs and terminology.Last edited by Tal_175; 06-26-2019 at 09:53 AM.
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good questions. I haven't heard of any sort of ascending scale rules either. I generally just think of the dominant/chromatic scale and stick them in wherever. You are right, though, I'm sure some choices are more idiomatic than others, for example 2-b3-3 you'll see more than 1-b2-2 probably.
I'd love some minor moves in the style of what's presented in Alan's book. I think I asked him a while ago, but Alan if you're reading this do you know any comparable minor moves?
There are always the minor monk moves
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