Patting your feet?

**fasstrack** · 10-02-2016, 04:37 PM

Arguably, it may be best when the audience, not you, does it.

Barry Harris liked the way I did it. Ron Carter (at CCNY) did not. (I'm more relaxed around Barry than Ron).

I remember having a conversation with Red Mitchell about this, probably stating that I thought I was patting in a f'ed up, out of time way. He said everyone taps out of time. I wonder, and have a feeling Red meant you tap to your ideas soloing, not the time.

Also, in my early 20s Bob Mover taught me some stuff: I was tapping nervous and all over the place. We recorded our little group with a singer in his building. Someone said all the untogether tapping sounded like 'horses galloping'. Funny. Bob suggested in my case to bounce rather than tap.

Also, since I've been on this board I've not seen a discussion about time or time feels, so here is mine.

What are your thoughts, mates?

**fasstrack** · 10-02-2016, 10:43 PM

C'mon, guys, I'm disappernted in yiz!

Joel calling!

Gertrude!
Heathcliff!

ROFLMAO!!

Seriously, ladies and germs, I thought at least ONE of y'all would pick up on this.

Alas, alack...

**pants** · 10-02-2016, 10:58 PM

When the band was really swinging I'd do more of a heel bounce thing. Not really making percussive contact. Also a kind of side to side chicken neck motion... Sort of stabbing my chin out left then right on 2 and 4.

**sgosnell** · 10-02-2016, 11:36 PM

I do whatever feels right at the time. Maybe toe taps, maybe the heel, I don't even think about it when I'm doing it. If you watch videos of people playing, they're all different. I don't think it's that big a deal.

**fasstrack** · 10-03-2016, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by pants

When the band was really swinging I'd do more of a heel bounce thing. Not really making percussive contact. Also a kind of side to side chicken neck motion... Sort of stabbing my chin out left then right on 2 and 4.

Funn-ee!

'Side to side chicken neck motion'.

Is that like the line in Broadway Danny Rose, where he says he taught Lou Canova to move the mic off the stand?

Tina Vitale:
'He always did that'.

Danny Rose:
'Yeah, but I taught him to move it from side to side'.

**Jazzism** · 10-03-2016, 01:01 AM

you havent looked closely enough. There have been discussions of this topic!

**fasstrack** · 10-03-2016, 05:34 AM

Oops! Actually, Danny said
'But I taught him to throw it from hand to hand!'

**fasstrack** · 10-03-2016, 05:34 AM

Originally Posted by Jazzism

you havent looked closely enough. There have been discussions of this topic!

OK. So here's another...

**christianm77** · 10-03-2016, 08:22 AM

Argghhhh! This discussion.

You pat your foot on 1 and 3 or all four. Never 2 and 4 ohnonononononono

Unless you do of course, and play great in which case, whaevah.

I did notice one guy tapping his foot in hemiola over a waltz. Very good player.

But there's definitely good foot tapping (feeling the pulse on a deep level) and bad foot tapping (nervous energy, or doing it intellectually.)

**christianm77** · 10-03-2016, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by pants

When the band was really swinging I'd do more of a heel bounce thing. Not really making percussive contact. Also a kind of side to side chicken neck motion... Sort of stabbing my chin out left then right on 2 and 4.

Good grief I do this as well.

I don't think it's very cool.

**christianm77** · 10-03-2016, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by fasstrack

Arguably, it may be best when the audience, not you, does it.

Barry Harris liked the way I did it. Ron Carter (at CCNY) did not. (I'm more relaxed around Barry than Ron).

I remember having a conversation with Red Mitchell about this, probably stating that I thought I was patting in a f'ed up, out of time way. He said everyone taps out of time. I wonder, and have a feeling Red meant you tap to your ideas soloing, not the time.

Also, in my early 20s Bob Mover taught me some stuff: I was tapping nervous and all over the place. We recorded our little group with a singer in his building. Someone said all the untogether tapping sounded like 'horses galloping'. Funny. Bob suggested in my case to bounce rather than tap.

Also, since I've been on this board I've not seen a discussion about time or time feels, so here is mine.

What are your thoughts, mates?

Oh yeah, isn't Barry a 1 and 3 guy, and Ron a 2 and 4 guy?

Isn't Ron well known for his push? I've never had the privilege, but I have played with a student of his for a few nights, and it's a very pushed yet completely solid feel and a thing of beauty. It's a feel that says 'don't be late! Don't drag!'

Perhaps a pianist can afford to chill out a bit more with a two feel vibe, while a bass player of that school wants to keep the beat moving.

**pants** · 10-03-2016, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Good grief I do this as well.

I don't think it's very cool.

Yeah, not so cool probably. But when the music moves you...

**grahambop** · 10-03-2016, 12:15 PM

When I pat my feet, I make sure everybody follows me.

Patting your feet?-boot-jpg

**mr. beaumont** · 10-03-2016, 12:19 PM

I'm a "toe twitcher." You might not see me tapping, but I'm tapping.

I've been working with tapping on the "1" only. I like the way it slows things down even more...

**matt.guitarteacher** · 10-03-2016, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by pants

Also a kind of side to side chicken neck motion... Sort of stabbing my chin out left then right on 2 and 4.

Ha. The chicken neck thing. I had noticed these great jazz musicians, especially pianists, doing it , seemingly unrelated to the beat. I thought it was just kind of a "Holy Ghost moment" kind of thing. :-)

Then, I realized that it was mostly a triplet subdivision thing. It's funny. It's kind of an x-y axis thing for feeling three and four simultaneously. They would kind of rock forward and back to the actual beat and shake their head sideways for triplets. Meanwhile, everyone else just thinks they're just "into it".

I notice singers doing the same thing with very bizarre side-to-side hand gestures which look convulsive. When you figure out what they're actually doing, none of them look quite as possessed. :-)

**fasstrack** · 10-03-2016, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

I did notice one guy tapping his foot in hemiola over a waltz. Very good player.

What the s^&t is a hemiola?

**fasstrack** · 10-03-2016, 11:38 PM

I've gotten good at it. My time was quite nervous when I was a young man. Now it's one of my strong suits.

I seem to tap OK. It even seems to help me, steady my nerves some kind of way. Maybe not a good idea on a fast tempo, because your foot can't keep up? I enjoy it, though.

I coined a term for myself: 'back porch swing'. That's when you're really relaxing at a medium to slow tempo. Then the foot seems to go by itself...

**pants** · 10-03-2016, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Argghhhh! This discussion.

You pat your foot on 1 and 3 or all four. Never 2 and 4 ohnonononononono

Unless you do of course, and play great in which case, whaevah.

I did notice one guy tapping his foot in hemiola over a waltz. Very good player.

But there's definitely good foot tapping (feeling the pulse on a deep level) and bad foot tapping (nervous energy, or doing it intellectually.)

Why's the drummer gotta have a monopoly on the 2/4 foot tap?
Seriously though, the only time it matters is if you're making a noise that detracts from the music. Otherwise, it shouldn't make a bit of difference what you do with your body.

**christianm77** · 10-04-2016, 05:01 AM

Originally Posted by fasstrack

What the s^&t is a hemiola?

Same thing as a sesquialtera.

**fasstrack** · 10-04-2016, 05:01 AM

Originally Posted by pants

...it shouldn't make a bit of difference what you do with your body.

It makes a difference when people in a band aren't patting together. That can be distracting.

When I was in the (Jaki Byard-led) Apollo Stompers years ago Bob Norden, a fine musician. asked me politely to please stop. Suppose I was throwing him off...

**fasstrack** · 10-04-2016, 05:03 AM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Same thing as a sesquialtera.

I'm having an empanada later. Does that count?

**pants** · 10-04-2016, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by fasstrack

It makes a difference when people in a band aren't patting together. That can be distracting.

When I was in the (Jaki Byard-led) Apollo Stompers years ago Bob Norden, a fine musician. asked me politely to please stop. Suppose I was throwing him off...

Well if he can't stand a foot tap then he shouldn't have joined the "stompers."

The real fight is to get pianists (looking at you Keith Jarrett) to stop moaning like a walrus suffering intestinal bloat.

**christianm77** · 10-04-2016, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by fasstrack

I'm having an empanada later. Does that count?

Well if your interested, I meant to say the guy was playing a waltz, but kind of thinking of two bars of 3 as one bar of 6:

1 2 3 2 2 3

And then tapping his foot in a slow three:

1 2 3 2 2 3

I don't know if it is something he had consciously worked on, but I thought it was quite hip.