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My dad can call out the name of any note he hears accurately, chords and keys too he plays trombone. I can't do that but I can hear well enough for my needs. I spent a lot of time learning off of tapes and CDs. I also like to turn tunes into solfege excercises.
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02-14-2016 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by BigDee62
Hearing that someone is out of tune or that an instrument is out of tune isn't perfect pitch. Being able to figure out songs on the piano isn't perfect pitch. Learning to hear an isolated pitch with much practice and then losing the ability after a time isn't perfect pitch.
I'm sorry that you thought I was talking to you personally. Again, I'm not sure why you would assume that. I posted the link, because perfect pitch has been talked about generally as having good ears, as opposed to what you're describing (perfect pitch)...Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 02-14-2016 at 08:06 PM.
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Well, there are people with cloth ears, people with relative pitch, people with pseudo perfect pitch, and then people with the real deal perfect pitch. But it doesn't end there, some people (usually somewhere on the autistic spectrum) also possess superhuman recall, almost like "photographic:" memory , but for the ears!
A close friend seems at least partly gifted in this way, and has PP. Also, he can get you to play a 10 note cluster on the piano, and he'll tell you with no hesitation which 2 notes you have left out! That's no party trick you'd wanna learn just ti impress your friends. Recognising pitches, or pitch collections, for him is like recognising colours for the rest of us.
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I don't think perfect pitch is useful at all. What's useful is whether you are aware (your ears) how each note within a key ought to sound and that if you play any other note you are playing "out". It is not that relevant that if you play a "C" and I blurt out without much thought that "you've just play a C". I don't care for that answer. I want to know if you understand how that C function within the key/scale/chord. If the answer is no your perfect pitch means nothing.
Last edited by smokinguit; 02-15-2016 at 11:40 AM.
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Originally Posted by smokinguit
But that's just pie in the sky, hypothetical for most of us normal humans, and I'd imagine that that's basically what you're getting at. For those who don't possess it, there is about zero benefit in working on perfect pitch... with precious life-energy minutes, hours, days etc. which could otherwise be spent learning useful musical skills, like relative pitch or playing skills.
I think people hear a statement like that and think that maybe there's no value in perfect pitch at all. It just ain't so. Could be very valuable, if used well by those who possess it. It's just that you aren't going to acquire it through some magic method.
I do think it's interesting that there seems to be an anecdotal notion of basically "breaking even" for musicians who have perfect pitch, compared to those who don't. I wonder if relative pitch is more difficult, for example, with the added distraction of hearing note names and not really having to use it in the same way, kind of the way that players who play by ear at a really high level seem to have trouble learning to read music for attentions span reasons.
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Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
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Originally Posted by smokinguit
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I've posted in these sorts of threads before, but usually nobody bites. I will try again.
I learned perfect pitch as an adult (early 20's). I learned it through a teacher who specifically taught it.
I'll be happy to answer any questions, but just looking through the thread, here are my thoughts.
Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacherOriginally Posted by smokinguit
"If you could learn perfect pitch, then EVERYBODY would be teaching it."
"Well, it's not that useful, anyways."
Originally Posted by Nate Miller
Originally Posted by pauln
Nobody is born with A=440 in their heads. You learn it through socialization and memorization. If you learn to hear A=440, you can pretty easily hear pitches that are CLOSE to 440 but not exactly.
I don't really work with quarter tones, but I can hear them pretty easily because they sound... wait for it... halfway between certain pitches.
I once attended a workshop with Ali Akbar Khan. There were maybe 15-20 students in the room, each one with a sarod, which has between 17 - 25 strings.
He could pick out when a single string on an individual student's instrument was out of tune. They don't use equal temperament in Indian classical music.
His ears learned those sounds because those were the sounds that he used.
Just for fun, let me add this:
I can walk over to my guitar and sing the open notes perfectly before playing them.
I can sing my door bell tone before pushing it.
I can sing the Microsoft log on and log off melodies on my computer in advance of them playing.
Does that mean I have Perfect Pitch?
No; in North America we are surrounded by an almost subliminal 120Hz tone from all the transformers in all the electronic things around us our whole life. One with Relative Pitch will naturally notice that reoccurring daily sounds like these are easy to recall because they have been heard with respect to the 120Hz tone...
"I can remember certain pitches and melodies, but SURELY I don't have perfect pitch, that's ridiculous!"
Don't denigrate that kind aural memory. Embrace it.
Originally Posted by Jonzo
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Originally Posted by dasein
I've checked out the super course you'd find in the back of the guitar magazines growing up . Found it somewhere lying around. Complete snake oil BS IMO, and I've heard plenty of testimonials to the same re. THAT course.
I am, honestly, perplexed as to why it wouldn't be taught more widely if it's a learnable skill.
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I know a lot of musicians, and they don't talk about "perfect pitch", or seem to think that it's a particularly desirable thing. It just does not seem important to my peers.
A skill that is highly valued is having "good ears": the ability to hear a musical phrase, chord or tone and know what it is and what to do with it. This comes easier to some than others.
I certainly don't have perfect pitch, but I can put new strings on my guitar and tune it and it'll be right on with the digital tuner. I can hear a note or phrase and play it right away on guitar. I can figure out the notes in a chord I hear and construct harmony parts. These are skills that a lot of musicians possess, and I think they're good enough.
I don't think the lack of "perfect pitch", as strictly defined, is a handicap to a performing musician.
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I'm still not sure why acquiring perfect pitch is so desirable when all you need is what most great musicians already have - very well developed relative pitch.
Not trying to be difficult. I just don't get why learning what studies show is not doable is so desirable. Perhaps when reincarnated the next time around apply for a soul in China.
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Years ago, I had a roommate with perfect pitch. When I was listening to records (this was back in the vinyl days), he'd often come running out of his bedroom to adjust the speed of the turntable.
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I don't have perfect pitch yet I feel really annoyed when I hear cuts where the speed has been slowed down or sped up altering the pitch. It is almost something I feel like nausea. Happens on Youtube a lot but also more rarely on some recordings of major artists.
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Originally Posted by Boston Joe
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Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
I think most people would need a teacher that knows what they're doing. Someone who can point things out. Someone who can adjust the material to where you're at in the moment.
But there's the catch. You need a teacher to learn it, but there are hardly any teachers teaching it. So no one learns it, and then there's nobody to teach it.
The teacher I learned it from was a Russian emigre, who received their training way back in the old days of the USSR. I don't know enough about that pedagogy to know whether it was a system they had, or whether it was something they came up with on their own.
Originally Posted by targuit
You definitely CAN get around that music with very well developed relative pitch, but for me it seemed like the quickest route to get to where I wanted to go. Your mileage may vary.
I still use relative pitch. It's a very useful thing to have, and I should probably work on it more. They complement each other very nicely.
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Originally Posted by lammie200
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Originally Posted by dasein
Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
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Originally Posted by dasein
Last edited by lammie200; 02-15-2016 at 02:58 PM.
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Originally Posted by lammie200
The Robert Johnson speed controversy
There's almost no supporting evidence the recordings were sped up (other than "I like the sound better that way") and a whole lot of supporting evidence that they weren't.
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Originally Posted by lammie200
Wow. Almost wouldn't care if it's not. Beyond every other consideration, the phrasing just makes so much more sense. Low notes at the end of phrases.... Wow. Going to have to check this out.
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Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
Len Rhodes Music: Ebooks - Perfect Pitch for You
Still think you would need a teacher, or at the very least a very dedicated practice partner.
Or if you're in Boston, you can look her up directly.
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Originally Posted by dasein
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Originally Posted by dasein
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Originally Posted by lammie200
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Dasein - you still have not answered Matt's question. What are the principles of the method to teach 'absolute pitch'?
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