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Ok so right now I am going through the Jody Fisher Jazz series, so I am using this as the basis for my musical knowledge. For the bridge part of Oleo that goes, D7 G7, C7, and F7, would I be right in assuming that you would solo over these chords using the arpeggios of each and the mixolydian of each?
After that what would be the best way of combing the two during improvisation, being that I would have to think a different fingering of each.
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11-01-2015 12:36 AM
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a dominant cycle.
just realize that the scales/modes and arpeggios are resources to draw from - but - seek to make compelling phrases/melodies as your first priority. try to develop some ideas in your head and translate them to the guitar. throw in a few chromatics and altered tensions too if you like.
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Many of us approach that section using tritone subs, allowing us to use scales/ harmonic content organized in descending half steps.
Last edited by cosmic gumbo; 11-01-2015 at 02:28 AM.
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The Rhythm Changes bridge is a great practice tool. As you can see, the basic chords are a sequence of dominants moving through the cycle of fifths (or fourths depending on your viewpoint)..
One of the simplest harmonic embellishments you can make is to precede each of the V7 chords with it's ii-m7.
Amin7 / / / - D7 / / / Notice how each of the dominant chords turns to a minor chord on the same root, setting up
the next dominant chord, and so on.
Dmin7 / / / - G7 / / /
Gmin7 / / / - C7 / / /
Cmin7 / / / - F7 / / /.
Another approach is to think diminished (Whole/Half) scale rather than mixolydian. You would start your diminished scale on the b9, 3rd, 5th or b7 of the dominant chord of the moment. You can see how this relates to Cosmic Gumbo's tritone substitution described above. In addition to thinking of the scale descending in half steps for each V7 chord, you can also ascend in whole tones for each of the V7 chords.
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Another idea I have for the song(mind you I am still in the beginner stages of jazz guitar) is that I could play through the changes using the major scale but starting on the root of each. Would this be considered a good approach for someone at my skill level?
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Your first thought was better. The other respondents have given you good suggestions on where to go from there, too.
Originally Posted by Patsfan1281
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+1. Originally Posted by fumblefingers
One thing you can do is break it into two four bar pieces:
D7 G7 and
C7 F7.
Play a phrase over the first four bars and repeat it a step lower over the second four bars. Of course, don't repeat it exactly!
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Really, I didnt think that was supposed to be how one would solo over it
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Oh and if I were to post me just playing through these changes would anyone mind giving me some feedback?
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What is this in response to? Originally Posted by Patsfan1281
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The M-Ster guy when he said my first idea was better
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Yes to both, there are many options but that would be my starting point. Originally Posted by Patsfan1281
I would suggest spends by a lot of time practicing thirds, triads and seventh chord arpeggios through the scales trying to stay more or less in one position.
if you want to develop your bebop vocab I would recommend Barry Harris's approach to improv with scales. Roni Ben hurs book talk jazz guitar has loads of patterns and ideas.
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Ha! Sorry, Patsfan.I was trying not to dis' your 2nd post, so I was implying that your first post was preferable to the second and that everyone else's approach was preferable to both of yours, with respect to harmonic strategy. All IMHO, of course. Originally Posted by Patsfan1281
Sorry if I was unclear.
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It's so funny to me. I've never, ever, ever had trouble with the bridge of Rhythm Changes. But the A sections always gave me a challenge. I seriously feel that most people have this backwards and play the A sections wrong. Or I'm way too anal about things.
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The chord is king. Those are all dominants. Dominants are V chords. But if you play mixolydian on all of them, while not entirely incorrect, you'll sound like you're playing scales and ultimately it'll sound hokey or bad and inauthentic to people who really can play those changes well. Playing only arpeggios would give off the same effect. But a combination of the two is the first steps to getting the right sound. You have to add enclosures and think the CHORD and less the scale. The chord is king, not the scale.
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Oh no. I didn't take it as a diss. I was just making sure. I'm still new to trying to fit the theory with the music and I see how the ideas wasn't that good.
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Completely in agreement. Actually, I'm surprised to see a post about the B section, rather then the A... Originally Posted by henryrobinett
Couldn't agree more. The A section is the challenge. And rhythmic placement is the key. Originally Posted by henryrobinett
The B section is where you can really let rip..
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Maybe different people find the challenge in different places. Originally Posted by pubylakeg
I've always found the a section hardest. As a result I have developed a few different approaches for it...
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A colleague of mine posits that different people do different things in different situations. He calls it "Difference Theory". Originally Posted by christianm77
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Some people just hear the A section as a big long Bb chord. And they can let their ears guide them through it all and it sounds great. They can blues it, pentatonic, or think I-IV-V. But I hear it much more involved than that.
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I've listened a lot to Dexter Gordon and I think he has at least 3 approaches to the A section.
1) Outline every chord, playing intricate bebop lines nailing lots of the chord tones.
2) Complete opposite of (1) - just ride right over it as if it's all Bb, playing bluesy phrases or just long wailing notes, or some 'Lester Young' style phrases where he plays around with one note (jumping it an octave or 'false fingering' it to give different tones).
3) Play some kind of descending or ascending repeating pattern which has its own harmonic logic which totally ignores the underlying chords. For example on Dexter's 'Red Cross' solo he plays some brilliant stuff like this.
Of course Dexter mixes up all 3 methods in one solo, so it makes for quite a varied approach.
Johnny Griffin is another guy who does similar things.
These are the 'go-to' guys for this stuff as far as I'm concerned!
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I'm working on this tune as well, I wanted to say thanks for the different harmonic ideas.
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yup, when ever this gets called, im like oh damn. haha. The A section gives me trouble, trying to come up with something to say at a fast tempo on this tune. Originally Posted by pubylakeg
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