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yes, exactly. the exercises are meant to be 2 octave plus arpeggios, 6th to 1st and or 1st to 6th string. Lowest note possible on 6th to highest note possible on 1st.
Originally Posted by docbop
Youll also notice that Sheryl B has her "microscopic bebop" line-scale set up in a descending manner, so as to emphasize the chromatic, stepwise movement from R to M6.
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11-10-2015 04:23 PM
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Thanks for clearing that up. As for the blues, that's my home turf. (I think George Benson said that Jack McDuff taught him how to put some blues in everything.) One reason I love Herb Ellis so much is that he has a great bluesy streak. Originally Posted by NSJ
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I feel one of the critical things that differentiate a jazz blues from a blues blues is to think of 3 chords instead of merely 1, and not just in the turnaround.
Thus a C blues, instead of a C7, we can think of, instead--
Abm7-Db7-C7
tritone sub of the secondary dominant, preceded by its ii chord.
gives a lot more options of material to play.
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Spoiler alert! That is the main thrust of Sheryl's take on the blues in her new course... Originally Posted by NSJ
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Well she didn't invent it Originally Posted by jasaco
"it" being the tritone sub of the secondary dominant, preceded by its own ii chord
But, here's the critical thing -if you play a play a C7 arpeggio in the 8th position (i.e., starting with the 1st finger ), the sub ii-V fits seamlessly without changing position, fingering wise-- the Abm7 can start with finger 4 AND the Db7 can start with finger 2.
I have no idea If the author presents this connection in this course, but I was just messing with some ii-V subs with his proscribed fingering. And it works like a charm.
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Cool tip. I'll check it out when next with my guitar.
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Well, I always think of them as at least three chords. Granted, sometimes one can play a minor pentatonic over the whole thing----indeed, many a great jazz player has played the same riff over all the chords (-and some classic blues heads work that way, such as Duke's "C-Jam Blues" and Sonny Rollins' "Sonnymoon for Two")---but I tend to think of them as three chords, sometimes more. You can also substitute diminished chords / runs for 7th chords. Originally Posted by NSJ
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I’ve just started the course and watched the Module 1 videos right through the instruction to work on Mixo Fingering Patterns 1, 4, & 5. Ok, so I’ve started on that, getting them under my fingers. But I don’t see any instruction as to what next to do with them (practice them going around the horn in 4ths, or transition from pattern 1 to 4 to 5, or just keep drilling them as static exercises and not use them yet at all?)
So, I figured maybe the next video would give such direction and build upon this, but I see that the next lesson starts a whole new subject of voice leading, making no mention of using these fingering patterns, nor of going on to tackle 3 more fingering patterns. It just seems that the whole subject has been dropped. I’m feeling disoriented as to what path I’m on here… Maybe one of you who's further along can enlighten me?
Thanks.
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You need to learn the scale degrees for the 3 patterns as well as arpeggios inside and out. I also worked on all 7 fingerings. Also cycle of 5th with the 7 patterns in scale form and arpeggios. Don't forget the rhythm lab and ear training. Watch last video in the nutshell. Module2 is going to have double the amount, module is just a primer.
Ken
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Thanks, 007. I'm trying to be very methodical about this and not run ahead too fast. So, yes, I'll continue working on internalizing the scale degrees and arps. Now, when you say you've worked on all 7 fingerings and doing the cycle of 5th with them, does that come up in module 2? Am I correct that there is no more to be done with patterns 1,4&5 during module 1? We just move on to other subjects like voice leading? That seems to just appear out of the blue; no transition saying why he's going into that next... just, boom!
And I haven't forgotten the rhythm lab & ear training; I just haven't yet gotten to them since I'm trying to do this in precise sequence but I'm not really seeing yet how this hangs together...
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He presents a broad survey of music theory initially. The chord studies are all just drop two and drop three voicings which he presents a small part of. Thankfully, I spent a long time on this, so it's not new to me.
The important thing for the exercises are the scale fingerings and arpeggios . The overarching issue is: how well do you know the neck? The fingerings and arpeggios seem to be very important in unit 2 and beyond. For me, the fingerings are not that complicated. You're either beginning the scales on the 5th or 6th string with either the first second or fourth finger. You never start with your third finger. I learned that in my private lessons starting out, and my teacher had me go through the Chuck Wayne scale book. Scales starting on the fourth string can only begin with the first finger. A side benefit of this concept is that they help you think of and play either the chord , arpeggio, or scale more easily, and all are interchangeable and available with minimal movement, if you think about it. For example: starting the G scale on The fourth string with the first finger also means you can easily play a G major seventh or G7 chord using the first four strings ( it's the Drop 2 1573 voice dispersion ). You can easily also play the arpeggio when you start your scale with the first finger there -1357.
That's just an added benefit. Although I think it's an important one. But you really have to get the fingerings down and the arpeggios down. Like I said, I spent a lot of time on this when I was taking lessons, and nobody is reinventing the wheel here. It's just a variation of CAGED. I'm sure the Chuck Wayne didn't invent this either ..
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Also, the voice leading is APPLICATION of the arps. Not just something new out of nowhere or abstract theoretical concept. There are exercises and examples to play, and it uses the arp fingerings already introduced.
Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 11-11-2015 at 09:09 AM.
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It would be helpful if he would have described that way, to provide some kind of continuity from the prior exercises. Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
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He does Jasaco, again Module 1 is just a primer ...the real work begins in Module 2...you won't be disappointed...I don't think...lol
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The key concept he should've tied in explicitly is, when you are practicing the arpeggios in two plus octaves using all the strings, it will be much easier transition to a different chord finding a common tone or one that is a semi tone or whole step away (i.e., voice leading ). It seems very clear that nobody begins again with the root note when changing chords- you move to the nearest common tone or closest half step to stop or Whole step. Originally Posted by jasaco
Implicitly, however, really getting the arpeggios down in two octaves plus across all six strings, from the lowest possible note to the highest possible note, will greatly facilitate finding the nearest common tone or halfstep or whole step when transitioning chords.
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He also wants you to focus on playing the scales and Arpeggios from the highest to the lowest string as opposed to the way most people learn scales and Arps from lowest to highest...Again watch the video called in the Nutshell and he gives you what concepts were shown in that module. It will be clearer as you get into the next module, I had a lot of questions in the beginning which I posted in the forum he has set up and he answered them directly. So if you have questions go to forum and post them.
Ken
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007, yes, thanks, I did also post my questions there, but that seems to be a slow-moving forum and I knew I'd get a faster response from you guys, which I did! Thanks. But I'll keep checking over there to see if he or others respond.
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Hi Jasaco,
Just remember the Module 2 is a lot of work.... I don't know how much time you have to practice but I'm already behind.
I Joined 8/13/15 and my 4th Module is opening Friday. But I'm still working on Modules 2 and 3. As Richie states most people won't be able to complete this in a year. I work M-F and don't get home til 6 so I try and do 2 hours a night, sometimes 3 hours and it's still not enough...lol
Ken
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I will be in the same boat but, anyway, as long as I'm moving forward, if it takes longer, it takes longer. Originally Posted by guitarplayer007
One thing I noticed about his videos is that, except for when he is actually playing to demonstrate something, his videos are him speaking verbatim what is written on the PDFs. Because he speaks pretty slowly for my taste, I might just resort to reading the PDFs and getting to the playing/practicing part a little sooner...
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Originally Posted by jasaco
Did you say you had all the modules delivered already?
Yes he's reading from a teleprompter for sure...But I like that this program is so well done, nothing left to chance. He even demonstrates each Bebop Calisthenic exercise.
Ken
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No, I'm going to receive them monthly to help make sure I stay focused and don't run with scissors... Originally Posted by guitarplayer007
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It seems to me that to truly have these scale and arpeggio patterns "under the fingers" you'd want to be able to do the following instantaneously:
1) Move your hand to the proper position for any key for each of patterns 1, 4, and 5
2) Start playing each pattern, both up and down, from an arbitrary scale or arpeggio degree.
3) Then, when playing tunes, relating each of the patterns to each other so that, for example, in a basic blues, your hand knows it's in position for pattern 1 on the I7 chord, and that the IV7 is pattern 4 in the same position.
It's one thing to develop the muscle memory for a new fingering shape without respect to the movement of the harmony. For moderately experienced players, this probably happens quickly—minutes perhaps. However, for me, what also comes rather quickly is the temptation to start playing the pattern as a mindless string of eighth notes without respect to the current interval that's being played.
So I guess a tedious, but necessary, exercise on the path to making actual music might be to pick a new cycle every time—descending fourths, descending or ascending chromatic, major seconds, etc.—and start out with just one pattern, playing quarter notes at a tempo slow enough so you can do the folllowing:
1) Say the key
2) Say the interval
I imagine that, over time, if you could stand the tedium, you could embed this pretty firmly in your memory. Since I also want to be making actual music, I'll have to intersperse these sorts of drills with, you know, tunes!
Any thoughts? Am I taking it too far for module 1?
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Originally Posted by jasaco
I agree, like I said My 4th module will open up Friday. One of the main aspects that's being over looked is all the exercises he has on Rhythm....which is so key when soloing to create interest.
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I don't think you're taking it too far at all. In fact, this is exactly what I was expecting Mr. Zellon to suggest in his course, i.e., how to work with these patterns and practice them in context harmonically. I was really surprised to see that, right after showing us how to play patterns 1,4&5, that he never gave any suggestions like this but instead went on to talk about voice leading, without any segue between the two subjects. Maybe I'm expecting too much, and perhaps all this gets pulled together starting in Module 2, as some have suggested above, but given all the rave reviews about how meticulous he is with this course, this struck me as a rather glaring omission... Of course, I fully expect to hang with it and get a lot out of it nevertheless. Originally Posted by wzpgsr
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Originally Posted by jasaco
I had the same question and yes Module 2 with have Bebop calisthenics as well as 5 Etudes...and Rhythm lab, Rhythm Cells , Several Rhythm templates to work on more Ear training, Candy Bars which are phrases you can learn. Double the amount of info in Module 2.
Ken
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