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I would love to take a look at some of the bebop calisthenics. If a member would like to do a little trading, I have some great bebop lessons I could share. Message me if you're interested.
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11-07-2015 01:05 PM
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I need to clarify my thoughts. Herb's book features different shapes in the same position. Not only scales and arpeggios but also the chromatic scale. So that means all the notes within reach are available.
Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
Where I may have erred is that I would practice each shape by itself, trying to improvise off it with target notes and approach notes. I can't see how one can practice all the shapes at once so in my mind, every course that uses shapes requires a period of limiting oneself to the notes in the shapes pool.
The Herb Ellis books starts out with the chord shape and then builds other shapes and patterns off it. But I am not sure how you could internalize each shape without some extended practice limiting oneself to just that pattern/shape.
Am I off-base?
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Like mark says, think of the shapes as a framework and learn the arpeggios and scales around them, they are a great frame of reference, I've not looked at this course yet but I learned how to play in this fashion, one thing that I found was once you learn a lot of M7b5 voicings they can be used in COUNTLESS ways as m7b5, as Dom7/9 both as non altered or as a b5 sub, or as minor sixth chords. Originally Posted by AlsoRan
When you then add the 11 instead of the 3rd you get some AMAZING stuff which fits beautifully around the melodic minor.
Voice this (from bottom up) Ab C D G and see if you can think of a few chords it could be.
Fmin9
Bb13
E7#9
Dm11b5
Gsus b9
F melodic minor screams out in this shape.
Voice it up the neck in as many ways as you can and look at where you can grab notes from F melodic minor.
Then harmonise a tune using it in all the above ways.
I can put a video up if this helps.
Last edited by 55bar; 11-07-2015 at 03:29 PM.
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I think you're supposed to spend a day or so with the shapes to get used to them, then learn the lines, and while playing the lines visualize the shapes. That's why Herb wants you to learn his solos before making up your own. You're getting solid lines under your fingers and also learning how to move them around the fretboard. Originally Posted by AlsoRan
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Please do! I think it would help me. Originally Posted by 55bar
Like mark says, think of the shapes as a framework and learn the arpeggios and scales around them, they are a great frame of reference, I've not looked at this course yet but I learned how to play in this fashion, one thing that I found was once you learn a lot of M7b5 voicings they can be used in COUNTLESS ways as m7b5, as Dom7/9 both as non altered or as a b5 sub, or as minor sixth chords.
When you then add the 11 instead of the 3rd you get some AMAZING stuff which fits beautifully around the melodic minor.
I can put a video up if this helps.
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I should maybe start a new thread? Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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Exchanged emails with Richie. The videos are not downloadable. However, the PDFs and MP3s are transcriptions of the videos and this is what’s meant for use when practicing. The videos just demonstrate some of the information, but once they’re watched and reviewed with the PDF books throughout the year, they won’t be needed. I asked for full access to all the modules at once, no problem there. I’ll be enrolling after the weekend.
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Ok. I just saw that you get the mp3's with the silver version, and I went ahead and purchased this. One benefit to the silver version, if you're more intermediate in knowledge etc., is that you can just print the whole thing as a pdf immediately. I've got 325 hot pages going in a binder tonight, and I have an 8 hr. car ride tomorrow. (I'm hearing a Blues Brothers reference there somewhere.) So I'll be looking at it. I think this just looks really solid.
Maybe like what Alan Kingstone is for guitarists approaching Barry Harris harmonic concepts, this looks like it's pretty comparable to Jimmy Amadie's book on improv for all instruments, but organized specifically for guitar and with much, much more in the way of etudes and examples etc.
I just think the organization of fingering protocols specific to guitarists is such a crucial thing. If only for its value as a reference from which to build an organizational framework for studying other texts, transcribing etc., I'd think it's probably worth it, but it also appears to be a very systematic methodology as well.
I'm going out of town for a week, but I'll update as I can.
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I signed up for the middle tier yesterday. I went through the first ten videos rather quickly as those concepts were already pretty familiar or easily digestible. Last night I ran the pattern 1 mixolydian and dom 7 arpeggio through the cycle for 30 minutes or so. I like Richie's entreaty to learn these fingerings from the highest pitch down, as I've not spent too much time on this.
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I see many people are digging this site, that's so cool...Like I said when I first stumbled on to it . It's the most thought out and logical program I have see online. Maybe if any has different ideas for practicing the material we can put them here.
Ken
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Well, you could, but if you want everyone who is already here to see it, this may be the place to post it first. (You can always make a separate thread later.) Originally Posted by 55bar
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I'm glad so many are enthused. As for me, I'm going to wait until the New Year before biting. I want to end this year going over things that troubled me when my picking was iffy; now that it's solid, I want to nail down the stuff I never got quite right and also learn several new pieces---mostly longish jump / swing / rhythm changes solos. When that's all done, I'll be prepared to take on a new approach like Richie's. If everyone who is raving about it now is still raving about it then, I'll join the club! Originally Posted by guitarplayer007
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Richie seems to be equating the middle finger with the ring finger. I've always thought that the middle finger is next to the index and the ring finger is next to the pinky. But in his description of the patterns he says "Middle (ring*) finger". I'm assuming that he means to start the position with the middle (next to the index). Can anyone clarify or validate this? I've been working on another course but have been thinking of switching over in this early stage.
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Oh, I see. Use the middle unless the second note in the scale is a half step -- then start with the ring in that pattern.
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Originally Posted by geoffsct
The ring finger is next to the pinky. If the thumb is one (-the first finger), the ring finger is four (-and the pinky five.) The middle finger is the third one---next to the index on one side and ring finger on the other.
This used to confuse me so I looked it up and made a note of it.
PINKY----RING----MIDDLE----INDEX----THUMB
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Yes plus you can watch him,,,this is basic stuff
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I'm very curious to find out, as I go further in this course, how he treats 2nds, 4ths and 6ths (passing tones ) vs 9ths, 11ths and 13ths (chord tone extensions subject to chromatic and neighbor embellishment in the same manner as chord tones ), as far as their respective places on the guitar are concerned. Assuming we have sixth and fifth string roots, I presume the 2nds, 4ths and 6ths on the 6th, 5th and 4th strings Will be considered like passing tones, while the 9ths. 11th and 13 upper extensions on the 3rd , 2nd and 1st strings Will be treated as Chord tones subject to embellishment
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It should be exciting!!!! My 4 module opens Friday but still really working on Modules 2 and 3...2 has so much info
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Have to look at it tonight. I'm pretty sure this is specifically addressed as a lesson/concept. Originally Posted by NSJ
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Working on Bebop Calisthenics #2...starting to get a little more complex
Ken
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Ok I looked ahead, Module 4, lesson 1. "upper extensions below middle C should be avoided" Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
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Yay, another attempt to make jazz a college course.
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I don't think he's making it a college course, but is providing a way of learning concepts that are used in Jazz improv in a logical order and building on each concept that is learned.
Ken
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Yeah well, if that is the purpose, ihe is very late to the game . As has been discussed ad nauseum in very small circles, the era of the territory bands and apprentice systems has been over for about 60 years . Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Personally speaking, I don't subscribe generally to these sort of things , but I have found that his and Sheryl Bailey's perspectives on bebop to be very interesting. But both can be perceived as academic and austere, from the perspective of an old timer who came up under the apprentice system .
That doesn't include Metheny, Rosenwinkel and Scofitld --: they went to Berkelee .
On an unrelated note, do a Google search on "Phil Lesh and friends, Port Chester, November 5 sixth and seventh 2015, Soundcloud radio broadcast ". I think he will dig it .
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Got the first full look at it today. Wow…, this is more comprehensive than I could ever imagine and it’s only Vol.1. Curious to find out when Vol.2 will be released.
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