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I don't even know that he's NOT using CAGED fingerings, (which is what Bruno's fingerings ARE) , but I think this frequently-voiced concern it's overblown.
Originally Posted by jasaco
First of all, if you learn Spanish , your brain doesn't FORGET English. This is much the same.
Second, they aren't arbitrary systems made up by guitar instructors. They are based on physics, fundamental music theory, and the way notes are actually laid out on the fretboard. So, there's a lot of overlap between the two systems. There just aren't that many ways to finger these things. If you convert CAGED fingerings to stretch-type fingerings you get basically :
2 fingerings remain exactly the same,
2 fingerings replace a shift with a stretch,
and 1 fingering is pretty different.
so, it's more like learning one new fingering, but there's overlap in all of them.
You eventually want to know both ways anyway, And you're always going to use 90% of those caged fingerings anyway.Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 11-06-2015 at 02:18 PM.
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11-06-2015 02:14 PM
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Probably not, I used to have the Bruno fingerings ingrained, actually still do but I'm overriding them with this new way
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I have no idea about Bruno . But if you can do a F major scale starting on the 6th string using your 1st finger, an F major scale on the 5th string using your 2nd or 4th finger on the root, or an F major scale on the 4th string starting with your 1st finger, you should have no problems. Originally Posted by jasaco
Let me clarify:. When I say that everything in the module I pretty much know, that doesn't automatically translate to "easy ". For example, say you're in third position and decide you want to play the first three notes of the G minor scale and then play an F major seventh chord. I have worked really hard to almost instantly and automatically know that the F major seventh drop three inversion is right there in the third position, the one with the major third in the bass.
I'm sure many of us already know this and Have worked on it . But that's just it: it takes a lot of work, there are no shortcuts or magic classes. but that's just it: it takes a lot of work, there are no shortcuts or magic classes .
I agree with Matt above: this class will be useful in terms of really setting out the fingerings And finding the best practices in order to make the music more playable on the guitar. I have met so many music teachers lately were very good but have no idea what drop two and drop three voicings are. It is because they are not guitarists and don't understand that it is impossible to play conventional closed voice seventh chord inversions on the guitar.
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NSJ,
Let us know he responds and gives you all the modules upfront. BTW with this new program I'm really excited about practicing again because I see changes in my playing already.
Thx
Ken
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Thanks for diving in and giving your opinion, NSJ.
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Email sent. Richie kindly let me have full access to the site to all modules and sent me an email. I think i Originally Posted by guitarplayer007
l look at Module 2 tonight
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Yes, that's a good question. I won't say "you can't teach an old dog new tricks"----I'm willing and able to learn new things---but given that I already know similar things, are these fingerings THAT much more efficient / effective? A related question: do you have to re-finger much of what you already know? That seems like a tall order! Originally Posted by jasaco
O, one final question: if I bite for this, it will be the "bronze" ($49) deal. Anyone work with just that?
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My only question is how many hours per day is reasonable practice time for a low intermediate player to stay on the monthly schedule of this course?
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Probably 2 hours, but as he states this equates to 4 semester course so most people will be working on well after the 1 year program is up...You can continue if you want after the 1 year is up. In addition he has an even more advanced course after this one
Ken
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I think the OP said one could get by with just the PDFs but I'm thinking, if he's such a great teacher, there's got to be $50 of added value in watching him execute it all and discuss/describe the rationale for all the exercises... I think I'd find it hard to stay focused on this course for a year if I never saw the teacher and only looked at paper. A month, maybe; a year, unlikely. YMMV. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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I'll be looking for your update. ;-) Originally Posted by NSJ
I'm probably going to have to pull the trigger on this as well. I've already got a great book that sounds very similar which is in standard notation. Begins with blues, basic approaches and enclosures, progressively adds more chromaticism. Anyway, every time I work with it, I wonder if someone hasn't already done all the "working out" of how it is best executed specifically on guitar.
I'm probably going to have to check this out just to satisfy my curiosity re. someone else's approach.
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One last thing , the thing that really appeals to me about his approach is that he's focusing on chromatic enclosures pretty early and begins with blues. This is what other instruments do in their methodology from what I'm seen. I think this is just so basic to really playing jazz as opposed to other styles .
All these other guitar methods start with the major scale, and I guess that's cool. You need to know fundamental theory etc. I hear Mr. B and others on the forum say to beginners that if you really want the good stuff work the arpeggios, and I agree completely.
In my opinion, there's an order of magnitude difference in your playing as a beginner when you're playing chord tones as opposed to scales. In the same way, I honestly believe that chromatic enclosures are to arpeggios what arpeggios are to scales.
And honestly, on the guitar you just don't need to know years worth of theory, arpeggios, and scales to play some of them. We've got all of the difficulties that come with our pattern-based instrument , why not have some of the benefits as well? I'll be interested to see how this guy lays things out.
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Just a quick question regarding the following statement on Richie’s site: “If you currently lack the skills or time to complete the course during the 9 month period, all the relevant material to continue at your own leisure is downloadable!” It implies the training or streaming videos as well, but are they downloadable at the same time they become available for streaming?
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Yes I would join where you get all the videos and PDF"S it's well worth the money !!!!
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Thank you 007! Gold option then. Is there a single zip video file to download for each module or several separate ones? Originally Posted by guitarplayer007
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Each module has it's own page with all the videos for that module and associated pdf's.There's also a download page where page where you will download audio files of Etudes and Rhythm labs
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Let me rephrase the question. I know the support materials including the PDFs are downloadable, but are the vids downloadable or are they just viewable online? Originally Posted by guitarplayer007
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At first glance, just perusing merely first set of 12 page exercises that deal strictly with calisthenics, I can't recommend this course more highly. The first exercise set deal strictly with not chromatics, but neighbors-upper and lower, both within the framework of ascending and descending arpeggios, from the first string to the six string and vice versa . Every combination and permutation seems to be accounted for with regard to practicing upper and lower neighbors ( from the highest chord tone on the 6th string to the lowest possible chord tone on the 1st string, limited only by the fingering)--ascending arpeggios, descending arpeggios, targeting two chord tones at a time (with each permeatation possible -b7 and 3, 1 and 5, 3 and 5, 1 and b7, b7 and 5), with each permeation of upper and lower neighbor approach ( both upper, both lower, first upper, 2nd upper, 1st lower, 2nd upper). A set of 36 exercises multiplied by three, with each exercise practiced on three separate fingerings, with each fingering correlating to the I7, IV7 or V7. So, in total 108 exercises targeting upper and lower neighbors for each chord tone of an arpeggio, both ascending and decending, with meticulous attention to fingerings on the guitar, through two octave registers. Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
With a very specific initial methodology and sequence to practice each exercise, leaving nothing to chance, such that it becomes ingrained completely: the fingering and ear training
1. Identify each note of the arpeggio from the highest to the lowest, from the first string to the six string, identifying each chord tone. Do not move on until you can do this easily .
2. Identify the target notes within the given pattern above from the larger arpeggio (here, the two chord tones to be targeted via upper and lower neighbors).
3. Play the target notes with the approach tones (here, a 3 note sequence target note-upper or lower neighbor--back to the target note)
4. Play the full exercise by adding the remaining arpeggio notes (the untargeted chord tones ) to the target notes and approach tones.
This is about is extremely rigorous and meticulous as I have ever seen this material . He expects you to spend two weeks doing these 108 exercises ( 36 studies or patterns dealing strictly with upper or lower neighbors multiplied by three fingerings for each pattern ).
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Originally Posted by AlsoRan
Also, I think you may have misunderstood Herb. The shapes are just that, shapes. Visual references. But if you look at the lines he plays in "Blues In C" he's playing more notes than are in those shapes. The shapes are not a prison; they are a frame of reference, a "handy" way to orient yourself wherever you happen to be on the neck. Learning Herb's solos is a good dose of "jazz language"! ;o)
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Thanks so much. I'll be getting into this by next week as well. Originally Posted by NSJ
Out of curiosity, does he correlate these exercises to specific chord voicings up the neck etc? Are voicings integrated into some of the exercises or etudes?Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 11-07-2015 at 09:10 AM.
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The intro exercises are straight forward arpeggios associated with I7 -IV7-V7 (blues). Each chord has an associated fingering . If I see something more advanced, I'll let you know . Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
The important thing is to Find all the arpeggiated chord tones ( at this .135b7, not extensions ) within the framework of what you can get by the specific fingering, while maintaining position -fingering. Say you are starting a C7 arpeggio on the sixth string with the first finger. You should get down to the M3 on the first string, 12th fret. Of course, ascending and Descending.
It seems to me that stretching with the fourth finger up the neck is far more useful than stretching back with the first finger down the neck . Especially at faster tempos.
The focus initially seems to be on targeting chord tones in every conceivable way while maintaining the fingering across the neck in two octaves . Let me clarify a bit: if you are playing-targeting chord tones of a F7 arpeggio on the fifth string with the first finger, you should still start on the sixth string and play the P5 and b7 contained there, because the fingering allows it. Thus, in such instance, the range of the arpeggio should be P5 on string 6 to b7 on string 1. Playing the arpeggio either ascending or descedning means starting on the first or sixth string, with the lowest or highest notes you can find in the arpeggio as permitted by the fingering .Last edited by NSJ; 11-07-2015 at 10:10 AM.
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NSJ,
Would it be fair to say so far you really like what you see? And did he open up Module 2 for you as well?
Module 2 has double the amount of information in it..He states he had to that to get us what we need to move forward... I guess since its a year program,
KenLast edited by guitarplayer007; 11-07-2015 at 11:06 AM.
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Yes I have full access to everything now. I'm going to stay with this for about an hour a day. I put in two hours last night. I have greater priorities which is working on tunes with the big band and also with a singer . Originally Posted by guitarplayer007
I'm also playing with the pick again after playing finger style for a few years, so this will help with that as well. pick Technique very rusty .
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I asked Richie if we were actually suppose to memorize these Bebop Calisthenics patterns and he said NO, just keep playing them so the different sounds get into your ear....I'm still working on bebop Calisthenics from Module 2 and now starting bebop Cal in module 3...I think these exercises are something we will be doing for a longgggggggggg time
But I love the sound of them...It's like he says it's the grammar of bebop.
KenLast edited by guitarplayer007; 11-07-2015 at 11:21 AM.
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So all 9 modules have been delivered?
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