Why deny the role of improvisation in jazz?

[fumblefingers]

There isn't. No problemo

[GuyBoden]

The whole debate about "what is improvising and what isn't" is my bag of frogs.

[MarkRhodes]

I don't think anyone has argued that jazz musicians should not improvise.

I don't think anyone has argued that the greatest jazz musicians---Armstrong, Tatum, Parker, Coltrane---did not improvise.

Rather, I think some question the definition of improvisation as 'making it up on the spot.' (Which is not to say that no one ever does this but that jazz improvisation would seem to require less preparation if that was all that it amounted to.)

Here's a short article about that.

Is Jazz Improvisation really Improvised? | jazzadvice.com

[bako]

The Music of Sonny Sharrock: Free Improvisation

Here's a link to a great article by Sonny Sharrock from 1989.
He codifies different approaches to how people engage with improvisation.

[GuyBoden]

I don't think anyone has argued that jazz musicians should not improvise.

I don't think anyone has argued that the greatest jazz musicians---Armstrong, Tatum, Parker, Coltrane---did not improvise.

Rather, I think some question the definition of improvisation as 'making it up on the spot.' (Which is not to say that no one ever does this but that jazz improvisation would seem to require less preparation if that was all that it amounted to.)

Here's a short article about that.

Is Jazz Improvisation really Improvised? | jazzadvice.com

Thanks, good stuff:

"The more you’ve learned, the more you’ve studied, the more experience you have soloing, the more you have to draw from when you improvise. You can take bigger chances and explore uncharted creative territories. Sure, you might play some lines or ideas that you’ve worked out in the practice room, but you are adapting them to the moment – the music happening right now.

In the end, this is the kind of improvising that really is improvising."

[CP40Carl]

I can recommend this book for a comprehensive analysis of the subject. Fascinating read. The book is very well written and the studies and examples provided are in depth (it's a thick book!).

Thinking in Jazz : The Infinite Art of Improvisation (Chicago Studies in Ethnomusicology Series): Paul F. Berliner: 9780226043814: Amazon.com: Books

[Vladan]

The Music of Sonny Sharrock: Free Improvisation

Here's a link to a great article by Sonny Sharrock from 1989.
He codifies different approaches to how people engage with improvisation.

Never heard of this guy before. He plays good and thinks straaight. Not to say that he's some kind of new hero for me, but he does deserve all the praise aand attention possible.

[mr. beaumont]

Vladan! Never heard of Sonny? Dude, download "black woman" and "ask the ages" and "guitar" today!! He's the real "punk jazz."

[Vladan]

Yes, it was obvious from 2 songs I've listened to this far. When I get back home I'll continue. He's the real gem, no doubt about that.

[MarkRhodes]

I can recommend this book for a comprehensive analysis of the subject. Fascinating read. The book is very well written and the studies and examples provided are in depth (it's a thick book!).

Thinking in Jazz : The Infinite Art of Improvisation (Chicago Studies in Ethnomusicology Series): Paul F. Berliner: 9780226043814: Amazon.com: Books

That's a very good book.