Verbatim Solo Playing

[christianm77]

I was having a conversation with some fellow musos about the recent Kind of Blue remake furore. The general feeling was that if something similar had been done in the trad jazz community (perhaps note-perfectly remaking the Hot Fives and Sevens recording, for example) it would have been taken at face value as a Good Thing.

Interesting difference in values.....

[princeplanet]

I was having a conversation with some fellow musos about the recent Kind of Blue remake furore. The general feeling was that if something similar had been done in the trad jazz community (perhaps note-perfectly remaking the Hot Fives and Sevens recording, for example) it would have been taken at face value as a Good Thing.

Interesting difference in values.....

Playing Scott Joplin note for note is a good thing too, I suppose, but since the late 30's (at the very latest), surely "improvisation" became synonymous with the emerging "modern" Jazz thang?

[MarkRhodes]

Playing Scott Joplin note for note is a good thing too, I suppose, but since the late 30's (at the very latest), surely "improvisation" became synonymous with the emerging "modern" Jazz thang?

I'm not so sure. Consider this track, from 1956----I don't think any of this is improvised and yet it is a classic recording. Some critics put this album on their 'desert-island disc' lists.

The 'pop goes the weasel' solo is precisely the sort of thing audiences would love to hear 'like the record.' It's so right. Who cares if it was played that way before? Or would be played the same way at the next gig?

[christianm77]

Playing Scott Joplin note for note is a good thing too, I suppose, but since the late 30's (at the very latest), surely "improvisation" became synonymous with the emerging "modern" Jazz thang?

I have read that Scott Joplin hated jazz and was keen to distance himself from it. He saw himself very much as a composer.

(As pointed out elsewhere, the same can be said of many of the tin pan alley songwriters whose work became intimately associated with the jazz repertoire.)

The development of improvisation in jazz as we understand it today (making up a new melody over an AABA song, for example) is generally attributed to Louis Armstrong and was the dominant approach to improvisation I think by the 30's. Perhaps someone with a more detailed understanding of the history could venture when this became the standard approach for improvised jazz performances - was it right away or gradual?

I also hear a lot of arrangement in post war jazz in small bop bands. These tunes are full of intros, interludes, shout choruses and codas that often get omitted in the more jam oriented performances standard for pickup gigs these days. If we took '78s as our sole document of bebop (as we do with the swing era) we'd be convinced that short solos were also the norm.

I'm not convinced that the amount of improvisation in the front line increased during the bebop era, although it certainly did in accompaniment (dropping bombs, comping from the piano etc). It would seem from contemporary accounts and the occasional field recordings of swing era jazz that long solos were quite common especially from established stars, horn battles and after hours jam sessions. And there is the legend of Charlie Christian's audition for Benny Goodman.

[christianm77]

I'm not so sure. Consider this track, from 1956----I don't think any of this is improvised and yet it is a classic recording. Some critics put this album on their 'desert-island disc' lists.

The 'pop goes the weasel' solo is precisely the sort of thing audiences would love to hear 'like the record.' It's so right. Who cares if it was played that way before? Or would be played the same way at the next gig?

It's a bit off topic, but I like how much Freddie you get on this.

[MarkRhodes]

It's a bit off topic, but I like how much Freddie you get on this.

Agreed. He's much clearer in the mix than on many Basie recordings I have heard. Speaking of Freddie, here's another cut from the same record, "Corner Pocket." where he sounds especially good.