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New article. Jazzadvice.com
The Secret Behind Every Improvised Jazz Solo | jazzadvice.com
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01-16-2015 01:03 PM
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Very good article, with a horrible clickbait title
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I love Jamey Aebersold's line: "All your answers are on the records."
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Yup, this is why I take such a dim view of the vast majority of jazz instruction books! It does take quite a while to learn how to "transcribe" effectively though. I feel I have just started to scratch the surface of this in the past few months - finally some of the lines I transcribe are coming out when I play. But that's just part of the journey.
Learn by ear!
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Although I see value in transcribing (duh), it is worth pointing out that several people who can transcribe so well they get paid for it----they have published transcriptions of Charlie Christian, Joe Pass, Kenny Burrell, Pat Martino, and George Benson among others, are not themselves highly regarded soloists. It's not quite that simple.
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Well, it's actually stealing the stuff and using it, not just window shopping.
Jazz is a vocation, as is being a master transcriber. My guess is these guys have little time to really apply what they transcribe...the car payment's due and Hal Leonard is on the phone.
Honestly, cats like Wolf Marshall...that might be the most altruistic profession in the music biz. Sure, he gets a paycheck, but the only real musical reward he gets is knowing his hard work helped somebody else...
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Well that's kind of the point...a book of transcriptions contains so much information overload that I really believe it's totally useless. Well, for me anyway they have proven to be useless. When I say I have just started scratching the surface, what I mean is that I now realize how important it is to take just a tiny little iddy biddy piece of that solo and then put it through the woodshed....looking for the secrets, making my own secrets...
Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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Nope, useless here too.
I've learned more from analyzing and applying 4 bars of a solo than I did from the whole "Jazz Guitar Bible," a completely useless tome imho.
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Cory Christensen is great guitarist and writes lots of transcription books. I'm sure there are people who are like musical stenographers, but I'd say someone working to be a musician that does a lot of transcribing is going to benefit. I'd difference is whether you're doing it to make a buck or doing it to further you knowledge (and make a buck doing it). Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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Well, Wolf gigs with his trio and is a lecturer at UCLA's Herb Alpert Dept. of Music. According to Mark Stefani, Kenny Burrell (-also on faculty there) got Wolf the gig. The guy can play and I'm sure he enjoys it. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Here's a clip of him and his trio doing "Tune Up." I'm not wild about it but that's not the point. Few of us know anyone who has transcribed more great jazz guitarists than this guy---and he transcribes them well---so you would think that when people say how important transcribing is to developing as an improvisor, that Wolf should be example number one (for jazz guitarists, anyway). Yet I don't think he is. (And I have NOTHING against Wolf.)
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I like Corey's playing and he seems like a great guy. His dad taught him well! Originally Posted by docbop
Again, I'm not AGAINST transcribing. I'm just pointing out that some people transcribe a lot and well but draw scant praise here. I wouldn't want younger players to get the idea that if they transcribe some great solos they'll turn into great soloists themselves. It's not that simple.
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Well just transcribing has it's merit, but the real value is the process it develops the ears, the analysis teaches improv ideas, and singing and playing the transcription teaches phrasing. Problem is some cop some licks and move on that usually ends up being forgotten quickly. I just feel transcribing is an important part of learning and build vocabulary. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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Just curious - what songs or solos would you want to transcribe?
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I can't think of anything that gives more return for your time and effort off the bandstand than copying playing solos by ear. I have yet to hear valid suggestions for anything more valuable from anyone.
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I got one, how about coming up with your own solos and make them good enough that others will want to transcribe you? Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
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The reason for copying other peoples' solo is to make them your own. Even the solos that you come up with was borrowed from someone else. believe me.
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Interestingly, when I play with Pop covers bands, the songs are nearly always learned by ear from a recording or from another band member's playing. To my knowledge, I think, this is just how it's always been done in Pop music.
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I know one solo worth transcribing, and that's Charlie Parker's Cherokee that was sited as an example on the Jazz Advice website. Simultaneously inspiring and discouraging; a great swinging solo...
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Transcribing cool... just do it in time. The slow down approach somewhat defeats the point.
Cosmic... how about sight reading, I can read through most transcribed solos.
Another great solo worth transcribing is Johnny Griffins tenor solo on Blue n Boogie from Wes Montgomery's Full House,
Not the guitar solo, the sax solo. Still one of my favorites.
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Like Miles, Herbie and others said in one way or another... copy everyone you can, then forget it all and play. You copy others, but it will always come out your way. We all learn to speak the same words, but we all talk differently. And again it's not all about learning someone else's lines it's the process of doing it that has the real value in becoming a musician. Originally Posted by smokinguit
When I see transcription books I think the person who learned the most is the author. Okay I can hear Mark... unless it was done by a hired gun with perfect pitch who just human xerox machine.
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Perhaps for you. But when one recalls reading interviews with many pro jazz players---on various instruments---who have taken transcribed Charlie Parker solos (-the Omnibook) to the woodshed and later recommended the practice to their students, well, it puts a lot more weight on the other arm of the scale. Originally Posted by Richb
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Yeah, that sounds familiar. A lot of jazz players started out that way too. You copped a lick from a record (or off the radio or from performance) and showed it to your buddy, who showed you what he had copped from another record. Originally Posted by GuyBoden
(But this is not the same thing as transcribing. Transcribing means writing it down. One can learn a solo from a record without even knowing the names of the chords much less how to write down the melody and improv. Eric Clapton learned a lot of Freddie King solos note-for-note but I don't know that ever transcribed any of them.)
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I want to add one thing(in my opinion at least): Transcribing solos or even learning them by ear is helpful, but the real trick is to take one aspect of the solo/lick and adapt it to create something that is your own.
Personally I do this all the time - not because I think I am better than the masters! But I think its more fun to play things that I have had a hand in creating and also I remember things better if I alter them in some way. If I try to cop a lick straight from the music, often I have trouble remembering it unless I am playing the entire solo the lick is contained in.
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I'll add my two cents. I think the benefit of lifting stuff off records is the act of translating the sounds you hear to your instrument. So I am of the opinion that what you lift isn't necessarily as important as how you lift it. Take a phrase and sing that phrase and then sit down with your guitar and figure it out by singing it over and over to yourself. The vocab is a side benefit. That said my first hour of practice these days consists of twenty minutes of lifting phrases then twenty minutes of applying those phrases to progressions then twenty minutes of running through tunes where I usually keep using the phrases that I lifted. I end up spending close to an hour on the one or two phrases that I get in the first twenty minutes.
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We have a lot of folks of varying abilities weighing in so thought it might be good to sprinkle in a little advice from some of the greats:
http://www.patmetheny.com/qa/questionView.cfm?queID=2366
Question:
Hi pat. I am a beginning improviser on guitar, and I was wondering which 3 solos (any performer, any instrument) you would recommend transcribing the most? When you were learning, who's work did you transcribe the most? What is your opinion of transcribing solos in general?
Thanks,
Brent
Pat’s Answer:
hi brent,
especially for beginning improvisors, transcription can be a very effective tool for ear training, and just general understanding of what the language of improvisation actually entails. it is also a way to kind of momentarily step into the mind of a great musician and look at the kind of thinking processes that they employ to become who they become as players.
wow, it is hard to pick just three.... since you are just starting out, i would pick some pieces that have fairly simple harmonic progressions as played by really great players....hmmmm....
how about;
"bumpin on sunset" by wes montgomery
"so what" miles davis on kind of blue
and maybe a great ballad performance on a relatively simple tune like something from a clifford brown record.
one thing - at this stage, ANYTHING you transcribe will be beneficial for you in a lot of ways, just jump in there!
best from patLast edited by Jazzpunk; 01-17-2015 at 11:43 PM.
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