Linear Expressions by Pat Martino

**ColinO** · 09-04-2014, 12:26 PM

I agree, but the alterations that PM uses seem to be notes taken from melodic minor(F#) and dorian(E natural) so maybe he's using all three in his lines? In fact not any Ebs so maybe that's why your teacher was thinking dorian? PM clearly was using G natural minor as he indicates as much when he shows the scales themselves rather than the lines.

I'm also just getting comfortable with the lines. I want to take my time and really know them before I start using them.

**MarkRhodes** · 09-04-2014, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop

Mark, I think your teacher was wrong. We are clearly in the 6th mode of Bb major.

You've also touched on applications of what we are picking up here - the C6 in All Of Me, as a for instance. I'm still getting the lines into my fingers - I've just about memorised all five - and although I use So What transposed to Gm (thanks to iReal Pro) for a backing track, I haven't looked at using lines in Standards yet. But that will come. I'm in no hurry.

Rob, I think he was too. Just plain wrong. Well, he was right about some other things. Water under the bridge. But I want to make sure I'm on the same page with my colleagues here!

As for the other, don't worry and don't hurry. I had lessons with this book back in the early '90s. I learned the lines but didn't really know what to do with them----I didn't know any jazz tunes then! You're in a great position: you're learning the lines but already know a bunch of tunes and have a strong sense of what kind of single line stuff you like. You'll learn the lines soon enough. You're in great shape.

**0zoro** · 09-04-2014, 02:18 PM

By the time I receive my copy of the book you guys have down the concepts and technics. Maybe there will be a help class forming?

**Rob MacKillop** · 09-04-2014, 02:34 PM

Any questions, just ask. I'll make a video of the five Activities played slowly.

**MarkRhodes** · 09-04-2014, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop

Any questions, just ask. I'll make a video of the five Activities played slowly.

Thanks for that, Rob. Great idea.

**michael_bxl** · 09-04-2014, 03:37 PM

I have a little question, I didn't really get why he is always stressing that the activity is in Bb but the form is in Gm or something like that. I may not understand clearly what he mean by the form, the place, ... of the activity.

Everything is in Gm isn't it (the licks we are learning are in Gm, no?) ? Why speaking about Bb ? Is there anyone here to clarify briefly all this ?

**MarkRhodes** · 09-04-2014, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by michael_bxl

I have a little question, I didn't really get why he is always stressing that the activity is in Bb but the form is in Gm or something like that. I may not understand clearly what he mean by the form, the place, ... of the activity.

Everything is in Gm isn't it (the licks we are learning are in Gm, no?) ? Why speaking about Bb ? Is there anyone here to clarify briefly all this ?

I'll give it a go. Gm7 is the same thing as Bb Major 6. (G Bb D and F make up a G-7 chord. Bb D F and G make up a Bb 6 chord.)

**ColinO** · 09-04-2014, 03:50 PM

Right. And Gm is relative minor to Bbmajor

**michael_bxl** · 09-04-2014, 04:10 PM

Ok thanks, I think I got it.

So he just want to warn us that we are in Gm and not in BbMaj. Nothing else.

Edit : true, I forgot for a second the purpose of the book : to "transform" everything in minor to be able to use the minor forms everywhere (here Gm) but on a "piece" actually in an other mode (BbMaj), that is the trick.

**marcwv** · 09-04-2014, 04:15 PM

Rob, Pat is by far one of my Idol's in the guitar world! That being said I am very familiar with his technic and lines!
So here comes the criticism.
I think taking small parts of his complete line is not very productive as the whole line creates the flow and sound that is unique to Pat. I understand that you may not be able to play up to the speed needed.
But a certain speed is necessary to get the line to sound correct!
In lew of not having the speed at this time...using a program that will sloww the time down or a slower backing track would work!
But what is vital is that the line be played from beginning to end complete

**ColinO** · 09-04-2014, 04:17 PM

As I understand it, he converts everything to minor ideas when improvising. So when the chart says Bbmaj7 for example, he builds lines using Gm ideas.

**Rob MacKillop** · 09-04-2014, 04:40 PM

Thanks, Marc. I'm practising the full line, but I'm interested in why you say parts of the line could not work against a chord that is only one bar long, for instance.

On the other hand, I do love Pat's relentless playing, those long, never-ending lines, full of energy and mystery.

**MarkRhodes** · 09-04-2014, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by marcwv

But a certain speed is necessary to get the line to sound correct!

What kind of speed are we talking about? I can play the lines pretty fast but I think they sound fine slow too. I think that's a sign of a really good line: it sounds good slow, medium and fast. (Conversely, many 'flash' licks only sound good fast.)

I do think it is important to learn the whole line (activity.)
But once you have done that, you can play around with different pieces of them...

**AlsoRan** · 09-04-2014, 10:09 PM

If I may, here is a conversation with our own JonR from a different forum that discusses Pat Martino's Minor Conversion Theory:

Minorising [Archive] - iBreatheMusic Forums

**edh** · 09-04-2014, 11:47 PM

Help!

I'm looking to order this book from Amazon. There are currently 7 versions of this book.

Which one is the correct one.

**marcwv** · 09-05-2014, 01:38 AM

[QUOTE=Rob MacKillop;457528]Thanks, Marc. I'm practising the full line, but I'm interested in why you say parts of the line could not work against a chord that is only one bar long, for instance.
Rob were you referring to this comment"I think taking small parts of his complete line is not very productive as the whole line creates the flow and sound that is unique to Pat"?
I don't think that implies that it could not work !
Marc

**Rob MacKillop** · 09-05-2014, 02:47 AM

OK, but why is it "not very productive"? The point is not to use these lines in the hope of sounding like Pat Martino. It would be great if they did. But surely the lines could be used in different contexts?

**MarkRhodes** · 09-05-2014, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by edh

Help!

I'm looking to order this book from Amazon. There are currently 7 versions of this book.

Which one is the correct one.

I ordered this one:
LINEAR EXPRESSIONS - REH BOOK: Pat Martino: 9781423460893: Amazon.com: Books

I think they're all the same, probably different printings. There's no CD. So if it's 64 pages long (-as the one linked above is), it's the right one.

**MarkRhodes** · 09-05-2014, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by AlsoRan

If I may, here is a conversation with our own JonR from a different forum that discusses Pat Martino's Minor Conversion Theory:

Minorising [Archive] - iBreatheMusic Forums

Thanks for posting that. I found it interesting. The standout line for me was that Pat got this from Wes. (I don't know if that's true but I do know I won't forget the claim.)

A question about that forum and its visual layout: do not allow quoting the way we do? (That is, setting it off visually from the reply so it is easy to tell one from the other?)

**Rob MacKillop** · 09-05-2014, 10:31 AM

OK, I had a free half hour - here's my video of the five activities played slowly. I then played them a little more up tempo, and spliced them in, as you will see. Hopefully this might help someone here.

**AlsoRan** · 09-05-2014, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

A question about that forum and its visual layout: do not allow quoting the way we do? (That is, setting it off visually from the reply so it is easy to tell one from the other?)

Maybe it was because the page was from an archive...?

I am not sure of the ultimate answer but I am glad you got something out of it.

Personally, I am not looking to use Pat's minor conversion concept to replace my own approach. I am just looking to ingest and absorb his flowing lines and ability to machine gun them for long periods.

**ColinO** · 09-05-2014, 10:49 AM

That's great Rob. Thanks for putting in the work to do that.

**MarkRhodes** · 09-05-2014, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop

OK, I had a free half hour - here's my video of the five activities played slowly. I then played them a little more up tempo, and spliced them in, as you will see. Hopefully this might help someone here.

Nice job, Rob. Thanks.

**MarkRhodes** · 09-05-2014, 02:24 PM

Mail just came, and with it, my spanking new copy of Pat's book. (Watch the old one turn up now...)

**MarkRhodes** · 09-05-2014, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by AlsoRan

Maybe it was because the page was from an archive...?

I am not sure of the ultimate answer but I am glad you got something out of it.

Personally, I am not looking to use Pat's minor conversion concept to replace my own approach. I am just looking to ingest and absorb his flowing lines and ability to machine gun them for long periods.

That could be it--an archived page. (Not a big deal, just a moderator's curiosity...)

I think it's great that you want to ingest / absorb some of Pat's lines without going whole hog into the 'minor conversion' thing. Mark Stefani likes to talk about the "5 % Rule"---take that much from a bunch of great players and you'll have something! (That's not how he says it, but I think you get the gist.)