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I admit that I probably implied they're disgusting and smelly but I probably should've been a bit more measured. I don't like them so I have a bit of a knee-jerk reaction. I think they're great as sort of mini-quizzes - I've been shedding this concept - now let's see what it sounds like in a sort of real-world simulation. I just think that there are far more effective PRACTICE tools. Backing tracks with loopers that you create yourself I feel could be a bit more effective so that you can control what kind of voicings you're playing over and actually know what you're training your ear to hear. If your ear is such that you really need the backing tracks to assist you as a harmonic reference then your ear is probably such that you can't tell if the backing track has implied a Maj7#11 chord or side-slipped against another chord, or put in a 9#11 or a b9b5 so you probably don't know exactly what sounds your hearing when you play this sub or that sub over whatever changes are happening. I would also wager that singing bass-notes under what your doing will help FAR more than backing tracks. It's just hard and takes a much much longer time to make it sound good (you have to learn to sing the bass notes for one) than it does when you're using backing tracks but - again - if you spend real time with it I'd wager the results will be hefty.
Originally Posted by henryrobinett
I also just think they can be a little overbearing when people are playing which is personal taste. If I were the bass player in Henry's band in a box I would've been throwing that imaginary piano player some dirty looks - "excuse me imaginary piano player - Henry's soloing - wanna try listening or do you wanna leave?"
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11-09-2014 11:52 AM
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You know you can program in style changes in BIAB tas often as you like to get you reacting a little more than you would to a metronome
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See that's interesting actually. This is where it turns a little philosophical to me. The idea is not "reacting" but rather "interacting" ... I feel like if your not interacting with a band then your time is better spent working out original ideas. Maybe the piano player plays a big hit on beat four of a thing and you decide to go with it and start playing lines in 3 over 4 but the algorithm or whatever doesn't know that that's the deal. Or maybe because it isn't on the same page you just never really think to do it. It doesn't spur you into different ideas or encourage you to continue when you get on a new one. I think it just sort of trains your brain in a different way. It's very subtle but I still think it's important. I also think it's important to make the distinction that we're talking about practicing lines not playing whole choruses or whatever. I sort of separate those things in my brain so maybe I'm different in that respect.
But yes ... the metronome has yet to switch from brushes to sticks when I start swinging super hard. I thinking about firing it and putting out a classified for someone new... we'll see.
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Hey IWB...
Your points sound good to me. We probable have a little difference in views of what changes imply, no right or wrong etc...
I still don't see any problems using backing tracks. The changes I notated for Joy Spring... sill have the same tonal references. They still imply the same Root as original changes.
In your example... I'm not sure...
Fma13 is still Fmaj,
Ab-7 Db-7, would need to be used as approach or passing and rhythmically on week pattern, I'm guessing that your using as approach to G-7 C7.
Cma7etc... if you could maybe line up changes to show where you would use them...Which changes apply to which original and what the relationship could be.
I don't believe in the slow get it perfect approach and move on method.... just doesn't work. I believe in both, sure practice slow to understand the technique and help get your head around it... and also practice at tempo. Playing at tempo is very different than slow....
And yes and no about over bass note... my point about using the backing track for reference... is that one can teach one's ear to be able to hear relationships, either by becoming aware of what the relationship is and getting or understanding the concept... or by the trial and error process... train your ears to hear it, my example...
Being able to hear A-7b13 with relationship to tonal reference of Fmaj, If the backing track played A-7b13... there would be no tonal reference . This is very simple Relative Minor type of relationship,(not VI-, but III-), most can probable already hear, but when you begin to add more levels of relationships, which tends to become more complicated from having less common tonal references...(less common notes), being able to hear becomes more difficult.
The tempo at which one choose to learn... there are choices. I just don't believe in the slow process as only approach. I believe in the at tempo out of control approach also. Like I've said... you need to do what works for you.
Like I've also said I don't and haven't used backing tracks... but if I had the time I believe I would incorporate their use into my practice routine, If I practiced. Might save some crash and burn time performing.
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@ inwalkedbud- Try turning the thing off and just imagine it's Elvin Jones swinging it behind you.
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I guess that the next and final frontier for software is a program that can hear your notes and interact with your solo - kind of an artificial intelligence.
I would bet that someone out there is working on it as we speak...
Elon Musk warns against unleashing artificial intelligence 'demon' - Oct. 26, 2014
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Originally Posted by Reg
Whooooops extra measure. Fmaj13 is still an F ... Cmaj7 would be a "plug and play" sub for Fmaj9#11 ... F A C E G B ... The actual subs are beside the point. The point is that how do you know that band in a box or jamey aeborsold or whatever isn't implying a completely different set of extensions than you. And wouldn't that hamper your ability to really internalize the sounds you're practicing.
For the sake of reconciling the extra measure how about this ...
play: Dmin9 - Abm7 Gm7 - CMaj7 - Fmin7 A7 - AbMaj7
implies: FMaj13 - approach - FMaj9#11 - Bbmin11 Eb7b5b9 - Ab
The idea is still the same ... If I'm practicing these subs then how do I know that jamey aeborsold or band in a box isn't implying yours? or vice versa
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Originally Posted by Reg
I'll concede that I do have a very classical idea of practicing. Not perfection or getting all my ducks in a row before performing but rather the idea that I'm practicing everything I'm doing. So if I really want to get the sound of your Eb7 as a sub for C7 under my ear but I'm playing over a whole tune then I have to realize that I'm practicing the whole tune. I'm practicing all these other changes that I don't need to be. If I'm trying to get the sound in my ear ... then I should try to get the sound in my ear. Sometimes practicing multiple things at a time is good but every time you add something additional into the mix you're dividing your attention again. You're absolutely right that there's a lot of gray area stemming from the fact that eventually all these things need to be applied in context so at some point a transition has to occur. I tend to be conservative with what I call "practice" though so that's probably where a lot of this comes from.
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Not sure how closely you listened to it, but there was no piano on Henry's backing track. Originally Posted by inwalkedbud
Actually I think BIAB often sounds better with the piano muted.Last edited by grahambop; 11-09-2014 at 02:19 PM.
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Anybody has a link to an example of above played live, with a band playing one set of changes, than another, under one same melody line? Originally Posted by inwalkedbud
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oh sorry I was making a joke. The recording sounds killin but all the same things apply with no piano albeit a lot more subtley since the bass is probably going to be a little more explicit with the changes and a little more rhythmically consistent under normal circumstances. Originally Posted by grahambop
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...so where is Targuit's recording? I dont see it in showcase
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Hey that's right, it's the 10th! We should be hearing TG's Sibelius opus any minute now..... Originally Posted by coolvinny
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My breath has been baited all day.
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Sibeliopus
... I'm sorry ... I don't have any skin in this game I just saw "Sibelius Opus" and saw potential.
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I'm an expert Sibelius user and I don't understand his obsession with it.
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What does this mean? What is "Sibelius Opus"? Originally Posted by inwalkedbud
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You're about to find out any minute now.... apparently..... C'mon TG, you promised. Bring it! Originally Posted by Vladan
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Targuit has been promising to post his playing...complete with elaborate sibelius-arranged backing. Originally Posted by Vladan
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I know that, I just wondered abot the tone.
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Is today the day?
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Yesterday was supposed to be the day. (oops, when I posted on the 9th I thought it was already the 10th...I lose track of days when I'm on holiday)
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He posted on a different thread about some songs he loved to play so he is still out there and still participating.
Its probably just a matter of time.
Some have speculated that he has been fabricating his skills, experience, and knowledge all along.
His video or audio recording should put all that talk to rest.
Surely no one would just come on a forum and spend years creating a false identity, arguing theory and music knowledge with well-established guitarists and pretending to be knowledgeable.
That just does not make sense to me.
As I said before, his recording will put an end to the speculation.
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I must admit, I usually dump out of threads after about page 3. But this is like a soap opera.
I can't wait for the next episode.
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Yes, what's happening? It's not like Targuit to be so reticent. Originally Posted by bluemusic4us
I thought he said he now has 2 versions recorded, so all he needs to do is upload a WAV or MP3 file somewhere (box, soundcloud)?
Signing up for soundcloud and uploading files is as easy as registering for this forum and posting here, and he's managed that!
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