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No one cares whether you are a great player or not Jay, but you've created a strange bed for yourself now. You're the only one who cares. You've stated how great a player you are and that I will realize that you are very bit the guitarist and improvisor I am. I really hope thats true. But I kind of doubt it. Not that I'm any great shakes. But I never said I was.
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11-13-2014 06:08 PM
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Did you guys check out my Sound Click link to my old site there with two of my original songs? I edited the previous post to put in the link and some background on the recordings to explain. I get the impression no one checked the link. I did not post it before because it is old stuff and one cut is certainly not jazz. But I think it shows that I do play and the songs are all me, even if City Lights is the guitar through my Roland guitar synth. At least take a listen through headphones preferably.
Hard to show you can play if no one actually listens.Jay Dreams
Don't know how valid the 'charts position' data is or not, but even the bluesy City Lights did not do too badly - Charts position» highest in charts: # 23 (54,542 songs currently listed in Blues)
» highest in sub-genre: # 8 (23,732 songs currently listed in Blues > Blues General)
My Destiny -
Charts position
» highest in charts: # 62 (153,168 songs currently listed in Acoustic)
» highest in sub-genre: # 16 (36,013 songs currently listed in Acoustic > Acoustic General)
JayLast edited by targuit; 11-13-2014 at 06:37 PM.
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I did actually... One was all MIDI no guitar?
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I listened Jay. At least you posted something!
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From Targuit: "As regards "playing by ear" - I do know theory very well. But I simply maintain that in the end your ears and the ability to play what you hear in your mind are the best tools for improvisation or just playing jazz guitar."
I agree with this wholeheartedly. I also know as much theory I feel I need -I can spell/construct any chord I need and I might not call it by it's technically correct name but to, me, and in the context I'm using it, it works for me - I just need it to remind myself what to play. Personally, I have no anal tendencies to know every possiblle thing there is to know about something - that's just me. Other folks have those tendencies and that's fine if it makes you happy - just don't look down your nose at and belittle a player who goes at it from a different direction. Some players (many on this forum) spend untold hours transcribing solos from 3rd and 4th takes of a tune on an obscure album from the past with the aim of understanding what the artist was trying to do when he probably didn't know himself at thr rime - they just pressed whichever take sounded best. I firmlly believe that there was no deep musicollogical (sp) discussion about why a certain chord was played. You must remember that to la lot of these former greats the tunes they played in the era were, to them, like the Johnny B. Goode and Kansas City of the times - they played them so much they didn't have to think abou tit. As I've said before, Wes, Herb and Charlie learned by playing with other players and feeding off what had come befoe - they didn't (and weren't capable of it, anyway - Herb might have been but never heard him get into any great theory discussions in his videos, etc.
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Originally Posted by henryrobinett
Henry - to be clear, I never said I was a great player. I did say I could play and keep up with most of what I have heard on this site. The link above is to my old Sound Click site with two old originals I wrote and recorded in a hurry. Not my best stuff, but the only stuff I had up at the moment. And one cut is not 'jazz' but maybe a bit country.
The music I want to post on Sound Cloud very soon is more pure acoustic jazz. But the old stuff shows I know a little bit of what I'm talking about.
Jay
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Originally Posted by targuit
Hi Jay - yes, I listened to all three tracks. I just don't see how they are relevant to all the big talk about improvisation, particularly as one was a pop/country song (not a diss...that genre is cool but really not relevant to the discussions). Who cares how they do in the charts for purposes of this discussion???? Justin Bieber does well in the charts.
As the saying goes, the difference between improvisation and composition is that in composition you have all the time in the world to write 15 seconds of music - whereas in improvisation you have 15 seconds. I say it's getting weirder and weirder because clearly you have the ability to record music - it's not like it's your first time. And already you've put up a tune without vocals so it's not like you absolutely need to include vocals to make a recording. So the fact it's taken forever to record you blowing over a chorus of a jazz standard just makes everything weirder. Also, you're choosing tunes with moderate, breezy tempos (bossa). After all the big talk "you will be sorry...etc" If you really want to show people what's what, play some bebop or at least a standard at a fast clip.
As for playing by ear...of course this is what everyone strives towards. But again...it's one thing to do it in a compositional, somewhat trial-and-error manner and another to do it in public at a fast tempo to a live audience.
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No - the City Lights blues was me playing all the parts (improvised at the recording in my living room the day of the midnight deadline to submit the song to a competition. It is my guitar playing each track through my Roland guitar synth. So it is all my guitar, but there was no room in the overplayed soundstage for a "guitar" track. It is my guitar through the various voices on the synth - piano, clarinet, moody sax, bass, and vibes. Needed a lot of editing. The other song, My Destiny, is another original also written and recorded within less than 36 hours to submit to an American Idol song writing competition. I missed the deadline by a couple of hours. Tech stuff. Not the best recording, but again my $200 Alvarez acoustic six-string and as I recall a bit of the Godin in there too. Vocals are me multitracked. Again, needed editing. Originally Posted by inwalkedbud
Jay
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To be clear you said you were every bit the player I was and you would prove it. Originally Posted by targuit
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Actually now that I think about it ... Henry might have a nice backing track of Evidence you could play over for a quick iPhone recording if you want
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Cool vinny -
the bluesy song City Lights was not notated or anything. I just laid down a bass, piano, and the horn tracks one after the other improvised on the spot - in my living room within 24 hours of the deadline for submission. Then the last track - the vibes - i improvised as my son shot the video for YT of my playing it. One take. So it is virtually all improvised. Not saying it is the greatest - it was a rush job.
The real back story to it is I had composed a really nice jazz piece. Then I realized that, by the terms of the competition contract, I would have to cede the copyright to Roland! There is a legal term for when an "employee" of a company writes something original, but has to cede the copyrights to their employer. I forget the term at the moment. But, I did not want to submit my nice jazz song and lose the copyrights. So at the last minute I improvised the bluesy generic tune as a substitute submission. That is improvised 100%.
I did not post this link previously in part because it is only two original songs and one is more country or pop. I have this perfectionist streak that makes it hard when you hear the imperfections that are glaring to me. Not easy to overcome.
Anyway, the music I want to put up on Sound Cloud is jazz, unless you don't consider Jobim and Bonfa to be jazz composers. If you want something more up tempo, I could do There Will Never Be Another You or something like that. Give me a suggestion. I'm not making excuses here.
Here's an idea. Let's come to a consensus on a tune to play, and then we can all record it this weekend and put it up on Sound Cloud. If we want to hold forumites to 'accountability' and 'spontaneity', what is good for me should be good for you all, too. Anyone want to take that one up? But it has to be all your playing.
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No, if you want to hear the real deal, let it be all acoustic or use an electric. No backing tracks. Just the real deal. Get naked. Originally Posted by inwalkedbud
Actually now that I think about it ... Henry might have a nice backing track of Evidence you could play over for a quick iPhone recording if you want
So what do you say, Henry? Want to try this little experiment? Btw, I think you are a fine player - I just said I could hang. Want to show me, vinny, inwalkedbud , Jeff, Colin, and....up?
JayLast edited by targuit; 11-13-2014 at 07:12 PM.
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I'm in. You call the tune--i need to record something, it's been a while. Gettin' lazy.
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You know, a lot of people have said a few nasty things here, and maybe I deserved it in part for not delivering. The links I put up here is to stuff I did in a white heat back four or five years ago.
But if you want to put me on the rack, you all should take a turn, too. And remember, i don't attack individuals on a personal basis. It would be nice if everyone took that tack.
Throw out an idea or two for a consensus tune or two. And how about a ballad and an uptempo song? Hopefully something that swings, just no Giant Steps crap.
Something that most of us might at least know or be familiar with. Musicianship is not always about who can play garbage at the fastest tempo. Let's see who has the cojones....
JayLast edited by targuit; 11-13-2014 at 07:29 PM.
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Look - there are many of us here who are humble and who don't run our mouths off like we are expert jazz players (a "complete musician...as serious as a heart attack") and don't really feel like posting our playing. I posted a little live trio thing around 2 years ago - nothing special, just over some jazz blues. You can check it out if you want to confirm that I'm not a total musical newbie...or maybe you'll listen to it and think I'm terrible - that's fine man.
You make promises, you talk big about your playing, you slag other forum members, you don't deliver, when you do deliver half of it is not remotely jazz, you are full of excuses, and you don't seem to see anything wrong with any of this. Then when people call you out on it, you want to get into a cutting contest.
Sure, I'll post some of my more recent playing sometime, but it won't be on your terms or as part of your game.Last edited by coolvinny; 11-13-2014 at 08:29 PM. Reason: Deleted "You've lost your credibility man and I don't deal with people like that because it never ends well" Too harsh, sorry
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Great. More rubato solo guitar nonsense. Originally Posted by targuit
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Crazy as things can get on this forum, there are really very few that attack a fellow forum member's playing, at least that I have seen. One or two zealously defend the art form with strong aggression but for most, this is about fun and trying to make music - even if it does not rise to a form of Jazz that is truly art. We are just trying to make music and some are pretty, darn good. Even our infamous RichB has given his blessing a time or two. Originally Posted by targuit
So Sir Targuit, just have fun and play your music. As long as you are expressing yourself from your heart, I truly believe few will deride you.
And even if it might not be as "good" (kind of subjective isn't that) as you think it is, you would not be the first to overestimate your own skills and you won't be the last. Have fun but you talked pretty highly of your ability so be ready for a few slings and arrows if it does not quite reach the mark.
If nothing else, many of us have learned what the good book says in Matthew 12:7 - "For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."
I am pulling for you, Doc.
Amen...
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No, Dan, we could just play over a click track - same tempo for everyone. No percussion per se, just guitar and a click so everyone can hear the beat - even those who might have trouble finding it. Originally Posted by danwaineo
Also Ran - I hear you. And maybe I deserve the reprimand. But people have made quite a few derogatory comments regarding my veracity and left some heavy shit in the air. So it is one thing to talk the talk, and another to walk the walk. I'm just inviting everyone to play on a level playing field.
Let's leave arguments aside. On game day two teams line up and the rubber meets the road. If you think I am too confident of my abilities, then no one should be reticent to take the challenge of playing acoustic or electric guitar (we can decide the number of tracks and tempo and song selection) on the same playing field. Not for bragging rights, but to level the playing field. No one cares how good or bad I am, but when people start shooting their mouths off a bit and making derogatory comments directed toward other people, maybe they should have the cojones to put themselves on the line. No?
Anyway, there is no prize involved - just a friendly challenge to show what you can do on game day.
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This is starting to feel like the wild west. I'm waiting for the tumbleweed and lone buzzard cry. Originally Posted by targuit
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There's a thread every month with a real good vibe where folks post on this site. Why don't you just go over there and post. Those monthly threads would benefit from more participation.
https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/jazzg...ong-wendy.html
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Excuses Jay. I'm sorry but you keep putting up excuses instead of throwing it up and letting whatever music speak for itself. "Uh . . this was done, . . . years ago, . . . under the white heat of a deadline, . . . for uh . . . American Idol. But it was really, really fast. I didn't even use Sibelius or nothing."
I mean you gotta cut the crap. Words can't explain music. One puts up and shuts up. Excuse can come later.
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Hey, good idea, Bud! How about Morricone's tune that Pat Metheny did on his Beyond the Missouri Sky?
What do you say, Henry? You know that tune, right? The Love Theme from Cinema Paradiso. Solo guitar. Of course we should also put up an uptempo song as well.
I have offered nothing but sincere compliments on your playing and writing. But not sure I get the same respect back. So who is making the excuses now.....? Or as you say, put up or shut up.
Your words, Henry, not mine.
JayLast edited by targuit; 11-13-2014 at 08:02 PM.
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And man, this shouldn't have pissed all over AlsoRans good thread.
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Cinema Parisdiso.
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Well as far as I know you were the only one who claimed he was a great player who could "play his ass off". All of your posts have such assurance and arrogance, people want some sort of demonstration that you know what your are talking about.
I do like your new found humility. Based on your revisionist approach towards your posting history, people have come out of nowhere and insulted you and your guitar ability.
Please find me a post where Vinny, Jeff, Colin, or inwalkedbud claimed they were every bit the player Henry was or that they could play their ass off.
Looking at your posting history, I expect you to play better than 99% of the people on this forum.
Hmm.. "Out of Nowhere" seems like a good standard. Not too fast, not too hard, not too common. I would nominate that one.
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