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I'm having trouble using downstrokes while going back up the strings. I use the Jimmy Bruno method that has ingrained the "going up a string, use an upstroke" into my fingers.
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03-02-2014 01:23 PM
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When I see symmetrical phrases like this, I like to break them up, play one part forwards next backwards, next forwards, next backwards. Or vice versa.
So, I've been also practicing it this way:
G-D-A (forwards)
D-G-C (backwards)
F-C-G (forwards)
C-F-Bb (backwards)
A-D-G (backwards)
C-G-D (forwards)
G-C-F (backwards)
Bb-F-C (forwards)
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again, i would advocate strict alternate picking or using pick and fingers. Any other techniques you want to use are not officially sanctioned, lol.
Originally Posted by AlainJazz
Like I said, it's worth putting the time in to do it with pick and fingers and alternate. The lazy way (
) of doing it with down-down-up should be used as a variation, not as the main approach.
Last edited by jzucker; 03-02-2014 at 01:55 PM.
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great stuff Jack..glad you are doing this.I have both books and love them
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Ok, ok boss. I'll do my best :-) Originally Posted by jzucker
again, i would advocate strict alternate picking or using pick and fingers. Any other techniques you want to use are not officially sanctioned, lol.
Like I said, it's worth putting the time in to do it with pick and fingers and alternate. The lazy way () of doing it with down-down-up should be used as a variation, not as the main approach.
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Cool exercise. After trying a few different variations I've settled on pick, middle and ring for the right hand gives me the best "groove". I play it exactly as written. The two difficult spots for me are the two downstrokes in the first triplet, measure 2 and then the upstroke on the last note. It's always those transition points, right?
left hand 1-2-4, 1-2-4, 1-2-4, 1-3-4 works well. The descending 4-3-1, 4-2-1 is another tricky spot.
my second favorite is just straight fingerstlye: p - m - i with a at the transition point to descending and a shift to a - m - i - p at the turnaround to ascending again. This is def a workout!
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Here's my attempt. I also played around with a little variation at the end.
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Jason . . I really like the way your 1st 2nd and 3rd fingers on your left hand never leave the 3rd 5th and 6th possions respectively. It calls for quite a 4th finger stretch. That really calls for some discipline in not shifting the whole left hand up the neck a bit to facilitate the 2 fret stretches. I think that's how I'm going to grove it into muscle memory.
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I have also been practicing a bit today with a metronome, first at 60 bpm, then a bit faster - quite challenging excersize. Unfortunately there is a busy week ahead, so probably no time for a video.
I found that several right hand schemes would work for me (left hand as described above, no shift on the first two and slight shift on the second two - makes one realize how awkwardly unsymmetric the guitar is :-)). Most natural for me seems to be economy (all down on ascending, all up on descending) or gypsy (all down). Jacks indicated picking also works for me, but comes a bit less natural. With fingers the easiest for me seems to be all thumb, haven't tried pick and fingers - I'm notoriously bad at that.
Jack, in economy it seemed to be ok with the click ...do you consider it really wrong to pick that way?
Cheers and thanks again for doing this!
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sounds good but watch that double picking with the {a} finger in the beginning of the descending portion. That won't work at faster tempos. Originally Posted by jasonc
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i think economy is fine for certain things such as playing bursts of notes but for careful and accurate articulation, alternate picking if fingerstyle should be used IMO.
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First with fingers (there's that flying pinky again, I thought I had broke that habit)
Then as Jack instructed with hybrid, a bit harder for me. (at least no flying pinky that time).
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My mistake. I didn't really look that hard at the picking for the second measure. On revisiting it I found the written picking to be really awkward on the first beat but I see the logic behind it. If I do alternate picking for the first triplet it gives me plenty of time to reset my fingers. What is the over all goal of the exercise? Originally Posted by jzucker
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I won't be able to knock out videos as quick as you guys, but I will say this pattern has already inspired some symmetrical outside ideas...
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Jack and all other contributors- thanks so much for this valuable experience.
Jack, what would be a reasonable fluent speed before moving on to the next installment? What are the goals with this exercise?
Thanks for all of the help.
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I would say 120bpm but there is more to be gained from the exercise than just what is contained in those 2 measures. Stay tuned for variations!
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@Jack, thanks...going to get busy with this.
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One thing I like about exercises like this is my weaknesses quickly surface and show their ugly heads, lol. So, a goal for me in this type of phrase is to overcome a challenging aspect of my playing. I sometimes feel I play too much the things that are "comfortable" for me.
Another aspect, as Mr. Beaumont has alluded to, is spawning new ideas by expanding on the pattern.
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Jack: great exercise! I was looking for a solid hand stretching exercise and this one really forces the left hand to widen - especially using the fingers mentioned with 124 until 134 on last string set. I was able to fly up to tempo but that second measure made me paused to work out finger gymnastics. Once I got it it is pretty close to the first measure. I'll keep working one it! Many thanks.
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I'm going to post a variation of this tonight that'll blow your mind. If you want to get started early, i'll describe it textually. Basically, instead of playing it with triplets, you play it in 8ths or 16ths - don't forget the swing feel - but you add one more note to each grouping of three. At the end of each former triplet, you play the beginning note of the triplet, a diatonic step down from the last note of the former triplet.
For example, the G D A becomes G D A G with the final note being an octave above the starting note. From here we will explore many rhythmic variations that become very cool.
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Many thanks, great stuff, we all appreciate this.
I'm working on it.
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This is pretty cool...good for practice...thanks
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Cool sounds Jack... are you referencing 9th chords... ex. being G-9 arpeggio, C9, Fma9 etc... all diatonic to Fmaj or Gmin. Dorian. Or is the basic reference just the 5th and each note grouping is with reference to it's self?
That stacked 5ths grouping is one of my favorite bass patterns to establish modern grooves, very cool. Looking forward to watching where you go. Thanks, I always dig your approaches to playing.
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Hi Reg, always great to hear from you.
I don't think of them as individual chords. The way I think of enharmonics is that they are diatonic extensions of the same chord so I think of Fmaj7 Gm7, Am7 Bbmaj7 C7 Dm7 Em7b5 as all the same chord with additional extensions added or missing but that's beyond the subject for this lesson.
So, when I do a little more with this lesson you will see that there are examples where the 5ths may be diminished For example when you move this exercise up to start with (Bb) but keeping it in the key of F) Bb F C, E Bb F, A E G, D A E
In this example, the 2nd arpeggio is diatonic 5ths (E Bb F) but not perfect 5ths.
This is a bit more advanced than I wanted to tackle at this point in the lessons though...
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Thanks Jack... Yea diatonic 9th chords with out the 3rd or 7th. The diatonic differences from scale organization as compared to constant structure of... creating relationships from introducing different harmonies or from mechanical organization.
Sounds like fun. I'll stay out of way, very cool of you to donate time and material.
Thanks Reg
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